#Eulora log for Sunday, 2016-04-03

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mircea_popescudiana_coman> or buy 100k coppers ? << 1mn is a bitcent ie about 4 dollars. 100k is then four dimes.02:06
mircea_popescuit obviously can also be earned, but i guess kinda slowly.02:06
mircea_popescubootstrapping is always slow in the early phases, way of the world.02:07
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mircea_popescuwooot, bot worked overnight!13:14
diana_comanahaha, congrats13:16
mircea_popescuso strangely enough - exact same get-up that got me q 448 eps yest gets me q 447 today.13:47
diana_comanI've built a grass remark - maybe q went down?13:48
mircea_popescumust be huh.14:05
mircea_popescubtw how much can you carry diana_coman ?14:06
diana_comanmax weight 40314:06
diana_comanyeah, foxy's puny14:06
mircea_popescuso i hafta dig up a crumble remark, but the bundle is like 550.14:06
diana_comanmaybe danielpbarron ?14:06
mircea_popescuhey mod6 hanbot can you fit a crumbly rock remark bundle ?14:07
mircea_popescuo, he was high ?14:07
diana_comanor grundin14:07
mircea_popescucan you fit it danielpbarron ? jurov ?14:07
mircea_popesculol that sounded weird.14:07
diana_comanjurov, he was the heavy-weight champ14:07
mircea_popescuo was he ?14:07
diana_comanor maybe DicePower sees the opportunity to get himself a char with high weight, lol14:08
mircea_popescuhows the quest for control coming along mang ?14:08
danielpbarronyeah i can carry 55014:53
danielpbarrondo i get a cut or what?14:53
danielpbarronor i guess you just need me to buy it and drop it on the ground14:54
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mircea_popescudanielpbarron yeah need you to dig it up and bring it to the claim, i'll lock it in and process it later.14:55
mircea_popescunot dig it up lol, buy it i mean.14:55
danielpbarroni'll do it for 100k14:57
danielpbarronand oo, got an ordinary leather from barehanded this morning14:58
danielpbarronwoah and just found an ord grass15:06
diana_comansueastside, ever got an account?15:54
jurovdanielpbarron is bigger than me15:57
mircea_popescubut are you over 550 ?15:57
mircea_popescuo hey.16:16
mircea_popescuso how much to drag my bundle over ?16:16
jurovok, so 50k16:18
mircea_popescuaite, aite. meet me in town and we go together ?16:18
mircea_popescuill be there in ~1 min.16:19
mircea_popescuso it's 4790130 + 50000 = 484013016:22
jurovweat's the rest?16:22
mircea_popescugot 16 coins ?16:23
mircea_popescuclaim is at -333 30016:23
jurovno key?16:23
mircea_popescujust come over drop it by me16:23
mircea_popescudanke schon!16:31
jurovdone, ty16:31
mircea_popescuin unexpected news, players can apparently make money in eulora by emulating mules.16:31
mircea_popescuand pretty decent money at that, i know i take ~1 hour to clear something like 50k16:32
jurovi doubt that would repeat16:35
mircea_popescuwhy ?16:36
jurovsurely more players would want to get 50k quickly16:41
mircea_popescuah in that sense. mebbe. if they're big enough at any rate.16:43
jurovor they make a script16:49
diana_comanI suppose the question is more on how big and robust the demand for this service really is; see the previous xp with demand for low q resources16:51
mircea_popescumore of a function of playerbase size than anything.17:04
mircea_popescunot like i'll get more able to carry cr remark bundles in the future.17:04
mircea_popescuanyway, re low q resource demand : the demand was there and robust. supply failed to materialize. EVENTUALLY, a year later, demand died out. this is normal, but also unrelated.18:33
mircea_popescui would guess the supply side failed to satisfy anything between 99 and 95% of actual demand.18:34
mircea_popescuthat said demand was not permanent doesn't change the fact that it wasn't supplied, just like you not having electricity your entire life and then dieing does not signify you never really needed it anyway.18:34
diana_comandoesn't make much sense to me: it actually died as soon as someone truly set out to get the stuff; basically there was much more stuff floating around that the crafters could actually process, simple as that; the later change to the new way of calculating q truly killed the whole thing indeed and that is what you are talking about there, but that has nothing to do with it18:39
diana_comanso yes, you needed the electricity and quite badly, but overall what you needed was perhaps a small generator at best, not exactly a whole plant that could employ workers18:40
mircea_popescuput a time on this "as soon as".18:43
mircea_popescui have about 60k spicy moss q < 10 in my storage. i have ~50k tpt q < 10 in my storage. they have been there for over six months each.18:43
mircea_popescuexactly the same situation is repeating itself with tools atm, incidentally : immense amounts of tools are needed. there is no supply. this is a failure of supply, not of demand.18:45
mircea_popescuthe demand WILL eventually go away ; and when it does, the failure of supply will still be, and forever remain, a failure to supply.18:45
mircea_popescupeople want to hoard things in need, and nothing will be in need forever. add these two together and you get non-inflationary economy, i guess.18:45
diana_coman"as soon as" -> when I set Gaxaro to work basically; he sold a few stacks of stuff that people had been shouting they needed and then that was it pretty much; same with dead molluscs - I still have stocks that apparently nobody needs (not that I am in a hurry to sell at all costs, but they are there and so what)18:47
diana_comanas for tools now: I was selling tools and they were barely bought, they stayed there for ages, I think you are still selling them in your shop, aren't you? any buyers really?18:47
diana_comanthe imps you offered in auction sold for less than the basics, so really, what failure of supply are you really talking about?18:48
mircea_popescua value. say a date.18:48
diana_comanmk, let me dig in logs18:48
mircea_popescuand yes, among other things capital allocation is an utter mess. imps sell for less than basics, private deals go for 2x the auction price, cs fetch 200% etc etc.18:49
mircea_popescubut the fact that people can't price is unrelated to the fact that people can't supply, which is in turn unrelated to the fact that nothing's forever.18:49
diana_comanon 3rd of March Gaxaro got his new account and people apparently needed all sorts of low q resources in high quantities if one is to read the logs of the day and subsequent few days; on the 7th I was already openly questioning this "demand" that danielpbarron still insisted was very much present; by the 8th, gaxaro was asking to build stuff and there were no takers18:56
diana_comanas for tools now, it seems to me that it's really cs that there is any serious demand for18:57
diana_comananyway, maybe everything is badly skewed because there are so few people18:58
diana_comankind of makes it hard to have a lot going on18:58
mircea_popescuwhen did the q change hit ? just about then neh ?18:59
diana_comanafter that19:00
diana_comanI'm telling you: this was BEFORE the q change as such19:00
diana_comansure, that killed the demand, no question19:00
diana_comanbut the demand was in fact already dead19:00
diana_comansimply because a noob set to work properly was getting 1 stack of resources per hour or some such shit19:00
diana_comanand nobody would be able to process that in even 3 hours19:00
mircea_popescuMar 10 05:57:37 <mircea_popescu>changes in this update will be significant19:01
diana_comanso yes, 10th of March, AFTER 8th, lol19:01
mircea_popescuso what you're saying here is, that for ~1 year there was huge demand for people to supply noob materials ; and eventually by and by noobs showed up and started supplying,19:02
mircea_popescuuntil eventually catching up to the demand19:02
mircea_popescuwhich fortuitously came two days before the quality changes melted the demand away ?19:02
diana_comankind of unrelated: in half hour, I got 80 flotsam worth in total 17k, out of 80 hits with an imp hoe; same 80 hits with an imp hoe on bb or similar would get me some 15 beans max, meaning total value 7k19:04
diana_comankind of : wtf would I dig and sell beans for?19:04
mircea_popescui can see the logic of "a noob set to work properly was getting 1 stack of resources per hour or some such shit  and nobody would be able to process that in even 3 hours". because i personally would have been buying more, but had finally large enough stacks to keep me busy for a while, so stopped buying.19:04
mircea_popescudiana_coman i got 62 eps out of 25 cs.19:05
diana_comanwell, on the other hand look at the molluscs stack or tlc for that matter19:05
mircea_popescuie 15k each o.O19:05
mircea_popescuhey, i got like 3k tlc! and processed like half of it, too19:05
diana_comanthere it was just one go and you were full; birdman did not even have a market for building his tlc remark19:05
mircea_popescuif i hadn't had it, we'd be in shit because silk needed for tomes.19:05
diana_comanwell, we are in shit anyway because canines needed for tomes, but yeah19:06
mircea_popescuwell that was more a function of other things - 1 tlc remark means what, 50k ltf. we didn't have 50k ltf19:06
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> which fortuitously came two days before the quality changes melted the demand away ? <- pretty much, yes19:06
diana_comanbut more to the point:19:06
diana_comanit was just a lack of noobs that kept the demand so "high"19:07
mircea_popescuwell in a sense. obviously it's much easier to make a noob than a veteran crafter.19:07
diana_comankind of artificially high, because really, how many noobs did it take?19:07
mircea_popescuso in that sense, the crafter is the fixed point ; the noobs mobile.19:07
mircea_popescui dunno... in the end it took a years' worth ?19:08
diana_comanuhm, you are mixing things19:08
diana_comanthe fact that it takes eulora 1 year to attract 4 noobs is kind of a different thing, wouldn't you say?19:08
mircea_popescuno, i'm aware most of the productive work by an objective criteria was done on the tai lend of that year.19:08
mircea_popescubut you gotta allow for the fact that noobs are noobs, you don't get to so pick and choose criteria.19:09
mircea_popescuotherwise we're talking a vet-noob chimera.19:09
diana_comananyway, tbf I'm not even sure where are you taking this "year" thing19:09
diana_comaniirc last summer around AUGUST rather than April I was working on the bot19:10
diana_comanso I doubt there was such huge demand19:10
mircea_popescuand eulora attracting has ~0 to do with it. eulora attracted the example you give, glaxaro. TWO MONTHS ?19:10
mircea_popescuwhich he spent fucking around ?19:10
diana_comancan you put a concrete date on this high demand thing?19:10
mircea_popescuthe attracting part is one thing ; but then noobs have nfi what to do, which is the definition of noobdom19:10
mircea_popescui know for a fact that i would have bought 1mn flotsam any q at any point between june 2015 and late feb 2016.19:11
mircea_popescui periodically stated this in chan.19:11
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> the attracting part is one thing ; but then noobs have nfi what to do, which is the definition of noobdom <- true, this is why I said a well set noob19:12
mircea_popescuyeah but a well set noob is like a well made burger king.19:12
mircea_popescuit's a burger king, whadda ya want.19:12
diana_comanso by late feb 2016 you had actually had your flotsam supplied?19:13
diana_comanor what?19:13
mircea_popescunot exactly, but i had bought large amts of various things.19:13
mircea_popescuso i was ok for a while. i'd prolly still have bought it if offered19:14
diana_comanI think the true demand there was (and possibly still is, though I am not even sure of this) for noobs; the resources thing was a less robust demand precisely because of limited processing capability in fact19:15
mircea_popescubut by that point i had bought many k's of tlc from birdman, and had many bottles, and a large supply of low q sm, wm ; also many dm , so was working on making acg/io/mc19:15
mircea_popescui was basically sitting on ~3 weeks worth of straight crafting or somesuch.19:15
mircea_popescuthen the electron bundles hit, i spent a bunch of coin on that, and well... was kinda reevaluating things.19:17
mircea_popescuin any case - the crisis was one of pricing not of demand per se. i'd still buy 1mn flotsam even today, sanely priced.19:17
diana_comanwell, just a bit ago you stated that pricing is a mess, so ...19:18
mircea_popescuas by now - a month later - i more or less dug myself from under my stores. 2 sb remarks, gone to ppb, and to cs ; 200 cheeses made ; 50+ dt ; hundreds of silks ; many wos, btk, ms etc. 150mn+ worth of craft time.19:18
mircea_popescumany other things really - i made 50 toils ; and charcoal, bottles ; 1k sps, on and on.19:19
mircea_popescua dozen or so clicks on abc is like 5mn just that.19:19
diana_comancould be that it is at the root of everything; on the other hand the question is also whether at what you call sane price, a noob actually ends up even in the slightest positive after accounting for all the misses and the cft+lbn19:19
mircea_popescuyeah, pricing is TRULY a mess, not just for some, but for all.19:20
mircea_popescui have nfi19:20
diana_comanadd to that the small calc I shared a bit earlier re flotsam vs bb19:21
mircea_popescubut it's not just flotsam. i'd buy sr, and boulders, and cr and nt. or bottles, say, or ibs, or slag etc.19:21
mircea_popescumany different items.19:21
diana_comanbasically by any sane measure, I should ditch the bb and all that jazz19:21
diana_comanand just dig out flotsam day and night19:21
diana_comanI'm sure there is even a market for 220+ q flotsam19:21
mircea_popescuo also grass. actually first and foremost grass.19:21
mircea_popescuif i had 1mn grass i could process it right away.19:21
mircea_popescutake me two weeks + or such, but still.19:22
diana_comantrouble is: if I do this, then no more cons basically, no bods, no chances of bps19:22
diana_comanessentially we are waiting to eat up all existing bps19:22
diana_comanand then there will suddenly be a "demand" for bb or some such19:22
mircea_popescu1000000 ÷ 3 ÷ 3600 ÷ 24 × 4 = 15.4319:22
mircea_popescucheck that out, two weeks almost exactly lol19:22
diana_comandunno, maybe it's still the sanest course of action19:22
diana_comanheh, let me see something19:22
mircea_popescudiana_coman it's not as strict as that, i have tons of low q bb.19:22
mircea_popescuthe question of "is it worth to use this or that" has no good answer, which is what paralyzes action19:23
mircea_popescuand all the clever minds that could be solving this and are now in huge demand are sitting on ass much like noobs did for a year.19:23
mircea_popescui keep trying to nudge them, but there's no helping people.19:23
diana_comanwell, rationally or irrationally, I am atm quite totally against the idea of making shitty bods19:23
mircea_popescuon the contrary, they make it a point of pride to not be helped.19:23
diana_comanwell, they probably have their feet on fire, hence you offering to cool their head doesn't quite compute19:24
mircea_popescucould be, could be.19:24
mircea_popescufor instance : if you had to choose, and either use q 100 bb and q 200 eps ; or q 200 bb  and q 100 eps, for bods. which is the right choice ?19:25
mircea_popescurecall that endless article i wrote trying to decide if to buy your bng or not ? that sort of thing. it's really hard to cut through.19:25
diana_comanoh, for basic resources you are paying 115%? weird, that's all I say, lol19:25
mircea_popescui am ?19:26
diana_comanthat's what I see on your shop page?19:26
mircea_popescuyeh i am.19:26
mircea_popescuwell there should be a premium for the rarer ones neh ?19:26
diana_comanby slashing the basic ones? lol19:26
diana_comanthe funny thing is that I made that flotsam vs bb calc on base value anyway, so the % on top is not going to make a terrible diff, but the thing is that there is basically no real reason to sell at 115%19:27
diana_comanlike: none19:27
mircea_popescuwhy, are you going to use ?19:27
diana_comandunno, maybe if I run out of storage space, but then again, I can start crafting19:27
diana_comanflotsam goes into everything19:27
diana_comantons of it19:27
diana_comanslag, bms19:27
mircea_popescui mean i get it, rich preppy people with lots of cash have no reason to sell19:27
mircea_popescunews at 11, as they say.19:28
diana_comanon the other hand poor people a la Ali don't have the means to have anything to sell19:28
mircea_popescuhey, actually i was going to talk to him, but seems he's offline. i ended up buying his boulders from electron, paying 2 each. i am sure he got 1 each. this is ridoinculous.19:29
diana_comannot to mention that flotsam and boulders are basics but due to their weight I am totally reluctant to sell them, lol19:29
diana_comanas it's a pain to get them compared to lighter stuff19:29
diana_comanneed some low q boulder?19:29
diana_comanI can sell those19:29
mircea_popescudiana_coman you don't need to convince me that in a deflationary (read : non-fiat ; non-inflationary) economy one can find many and plurious reasons to justify why they dun wanna sell things.19:29
mircea_popescuhoarding is hoarding!19:29
diana_comanbwahahaha, I am a noob-hoarder compared to experts such as danielpbarron19:30
mircea_popescudiana_coman i got just enough for a run of 500 io19:30
mircea_popescuwhich i did half overnight and ima do the rest tonight19:30
mircea_popescuthen prolly get the cr remark.19:30
mircea_popescubut during day i prefer to stick up the eps. hopefully i get enough to make some decent bod.19:31
mircea_popescua btw, you decided not to sell high bb in the end ?19:31
diana_comanwell, all I'm saying is that I can part with a stack of q1 boulders without any trouble19:31
mircea_popescuthat wouldn't hurt. how much ?19:31
diana_comanah, let me see what I got re bb, as I did promise I'll get it, won't back down on it now19:31
diana_comanguess won't promise more, but what is set is set19:31
mircea_popescua that's nice then!19:31
mircea_popescu150*17 = 2550 pcs covers me to make all the bods i have bps for.19:32
diana_comanfor the boulders, I don't even know, lol19:33
mircea_popescu30 cs, 5 ords and 73 eps q 44719:34
diana_comanha, perfect moment to find out real price of low q res, no?19:35
mircea_popescuif only.19:35
diana_comanAUCTION: 9999 boulders q1, opening price 9999coppers; closing 4 April 8pm gmt19:36
diana_comandanielpbarron, jurov hanbot, anyone else interested ^19:36
mircea_popescu59 × 10000 × 1  × 1.15 = 6785 lol.19:36
mircea_popescubut fine, 10k.19:36
diana_comanoh, I thought 1 copper per was min19:36
mircea_popescui wonder if electron gives you less than 1 per.19:37
diana_comanbut I am fine to start it from 678519:37
mircea_popescu10k, it's bid.19:37
diana_comanyeah, he gives 0, lol19:37
mircea_popesculol asshole.19:37
diana_comanAUCTION: 9999 boulders q1, heard 10k from mircea_popescu ; closing 4 April 8pm gmt19:37
mircea_popescushould prolly say you know, "thank you for your generous donation to the shareholders"19:37
diana_comanahahha, indeed19:37
mircea_popescuso the ord bundles are 50k ea19:37
diana_comanhe could give a donation certificate19:38
danielpbarronkol style19:38
diana_comanyeah, and they are a steal: I got consistently less than that on bb ords, lol19:38
mircea_popescuanwyay, my cash position looks pretty sad, halved this year19:39
mircea_popescuand that's with significant propping ;/19:39
mircea_popescu28 q 21419:40
mircea_popescuhalf the bundle, if the stick were free ;/19:41
diana_comanso 2550 bbs is what you need, right? I have them 224q19:42
diana_comanwhere are you?19:42
mircea_popescuout by teh eps lol.19:43
mircea_popescumeet for the boulders and settle it then ?19:43
diana_comanok, won't carry boulders out of town, lol19:43
mircea_popescuo you got them out ?19:43
diana_comanoh, noooo19:43
diana_comanit's an auction!!!19:43
mircea_popesculol this would be a decent punishment, gotta carry 10k boulders over to the tree19:43
diana_comanwho knows, maybe there's actually a huge hidden demand for the low q boulders19:44
mircea_popescusomehow i doubt this, but who knows.19:44
mircea_popescumaybe someone finds out their wife was cheating or somesuch.19:44
mircea_popescuholy shit 18 this time19:44
diana_coman18 eps from one claim?19:45
diana_comanone ord?19:45
mircea_popescuq 250 bundle!19:45
diana_comanwelcome to a true gatherer's world, what can I say19:45
diana_comanreally, I'll stick to flotsam for a while19:45
diana_comanit makes for very nice q slag and the like, can't even say I don't need it19:46
* mircea_popescu hopes to one day buy all the flotsam he needs19:46
mircea_popescubut that day's clearly not upon us yet.19:46
mircea_popescu151 snails out of 520:02
mircea_popescuso, 30 cs worth 1.2mn in + 5 ord bundles, 250k + 27 * 7 * 180 * 1.6 * ? = 50-100k spent.20:02
mircea_popescu151 eps q 214 and 73 q 447 = 650 "normal" eps.20:03
mircea_popescu1500000 / 650 / 399 = 5.783689994 so on the basis of this 30 stick run eps should carry a close to 600% margin.20:05
mircea_popescuima go try get it bh now see.20:05
mircea_popesculol i got 1 bn21:14
danielpbarronused my mcguyver consideration, got hoof gloves and skullcaps :<21:16
mircea_popesculots ?21:17
danielpbarronwhat's lots, enough21:18
mircea_popescu10 or 1000 not teh same thing21:18
danielpbarronnot what i wanted so not worth what i paid for it21:18
diana_comanskullcaps at least are useful21:20
diana_comanI mean: needed for lapidary, so not that terrible21:20
diana_comandanielpbarron, want was it you wanted?21:23
mircea_popescutool bps iirc21:24
diana_comanhm, imp you mean? or what's the reasoning in tools being from mcguyver?21:24
mircea_popescuno like craft tables21:24
diana_coman(assuming that they are not all randomly given anyway)21:25
diana_comanah, craft containers21:25
mircea_popescudiana_coman you avail for bb ?21:26
diana_comanhm, I'd be surprised if those were not only with some pops or the like, judging by their bv otherwise and previous experience in looting them even before the change21:26
diana_comanah, yes, can do21:26
mircea_popescu1,5mn was it ?21:27
diana_coman1.46 precisely21:28
diana_comanuhm, I don't have change21:28
mircea_popescume eiother ;/21:28
diana_comanthat's what I have, will owe 304k?21:29
diana_comanah, cool21:30
mircea_popescubtw, i just did mah math, i'd buy 25k leather also.21:31
mircea_popescuummm actually no.21:31
diana_comanthe shortest lived demand EVER21:32
mircea_popescui'd buy 52 * 22k = 1.150 mn21:32
mircea_popescuin cash.21:32
mircea_popescuat q 100 that's a projected base value of 175mn21:33
diana_comando you mean you'd buy 22k wpl at 52coppers qabv?21:33
mircea_popescui would buy 1.15 million wpl.21:34
diana_comansadly I doubt it is even by far as profitable as flotsam; will check just in case21:35
mircea_popescuadd to that 1mn flotsam ; 1mn grass ; 500k sr ; 300k cr ; 100k rf ; 1mn nt21:36
mircea_popescuand 1mn sb21:36
mircea_popescunot going to bore anyone with the craftables.21:36
diana_comanare you talking any q there or low q or high q?21:36
mircea_popescuany really.21:36
diana_comanAli got plenty of market, curious if he notices any of it, lol21:37
diana_comanor DicePower for that matter21:37
diana_comanha, making some cft 259q!21:39
mircea_popescuim making some bod. bundle 212 bp 200 curious what comes out21:40
diana_comanand I'm even getting some feelingses to go with it, so that's 259q feelings, should be a dime or so21:41
mircea_popescuwth grass is that, gives you feelings and q 259 cft21:41
diana_comanmy own grass, q317, I think it's from the remark21:42
mircea_popescupretty good21:42
diana_comanI have reasonable cft bps too, wish I just had the same for io really21:42
mircea_popescucoming out q 25222:06
mircea_popescunb imo22:06
mircea_popescui don't recall, what q bod was i buying from you diana_coman ?22:25
hanbotnice pop diana_coman22:39
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