#Eulora log for Saturday, 2016-02-27

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*** Joins: hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot)00:34
mircea_popescuhanbot 20k for your ict!00:37
hanbotmircea_popescu you got 'em00:41
*** mod6_ is now known as mod601:03
*** Quits: mod6 (~mod6@188.226.210.123) (Changing host)01:03
*** Joins: mod6 (~mod6@unaffiliated/mod6)01:03
danielpbarronisn't it ist?01:08
mircea_popescucacrifice lol01:20
mircea_popescudanielpbarron is the slag ready btw ?01:31
danielpbarronit'll be another 5 hours01:37
mircea_popescuah ok. im on the last coupla btks, but will be going out so01:38
mircea_popescutomorrow morn or when im back01:38
danielpbarronyep01:38
Birdmanwelp im on my last 20 cs03:27
mircea_popescushiiiit, 245 assorted mites!04:14
mircea_popescuand only 15 clicks done.04:14
mircea_popescuLOVE YOU diana_coman !!1104:15
mircea_popescuhanbot sweet, hit me up whenever.04:15
mircea_popescuin other sad news, my bouq output is merely 13004:18
mircea_popescuof course, this bodes great for looting.04:18
Birdmanyes which is the name of the game right now right?04:19
DicePowerBirdman:  Got your PM (I have a bouncer so I appear Online even when I'm not), I actually haven't even started the game yet, hehe.  I've been working on studying character stats by iterating through characters.  Was away for a few days and tomorrow I'm planning to continue trying to compile the source code.04:25
Birdmanah well good luck to ya04:26
DicePowerty it's been an adventure :P04:26
mircea_popescuhopefully yea04:30
mircea_popescuanyway, i'm in a position to calc my craft now, in advance.04:31
mircea_popescuputting in, 88`462 * 1.43 + 2 * 29`170 * 1.5 + 100 * 1.07 + 99 * 1`000 * 1.3 + 2`515 + 339 = 345671.6604:32
mircea_popescutaking out, 107 × 1727 × 1.3 = 240225.704:32
mircea_popescuovercraft per click, 105445.96 ECu. if this is the BV of blueprints i'm getting, then i'd make something like say 4506 CFT bps or 86 basic tool bps or 40 cs traditions etc.04:34
mircea_popescuat least theoretically very few bps would be outside my reach, mostly stuff like the tools and us and that kinda item.04:35
Birdmanah but q13004:35
mircea_popescuyuppers.04:35
Birdmanso you are looting bps04:36
Birdman?04:36
mircea_popescuhopefully.04:36
Birdmanawesome04:36
mircea_popescuwith any luck i get a pop with it :D04:37
mircea_popescunow THAT would be awesome04:38
Birdmanheh those ords really do disappear right before your eyes huh, didnt think i'd need to lock it so damn urgently seeing as it was made a day ago tops04:38
mircea_popescuit's a game of grab what you can!04:39
Birdmancould imagine mining old sizeables and remarks is not for the faint of heart!04:40
mircea_popescuoh and i can also calculate actual spendage per click.04:43
mircea_popescuso the bps, i paid 50mn for 100, that's 500k each. the dt let's call it 200k. the bod, maybe 100k together. the ist 20k, and so far 245 numina cost me 903k + 598  × 1.42 × 152 × 1.3 = 167794 + the bps say 30 * 26 = 500k. 1,57mn for 245 means 100 cost me 640k, and there we have it then...04:46
mircea_popescu500 + 200 + 100 + 20 + 640 = 1.46mn. whatever comes out of that click'd better be worth 1.5mn,04:46
mircea_popescuby which logic if 40 cs are worth 1.5mn then each cs ~tradition~ is like 35-40k.04:47
mircea_popescuand similarly tool bps like 17-20k a pop, and CFT bps 320-350 ecu each.04:47
mircea_popescuand this is just a very optimistic, base values only sort of approach. can easily double that.04:48
Birdmanso how would that work out, if the bps cost 3000% or w/e of their base value04:49
Birdmanwhat would be changed?04:50
mircea_popescuthe prices, i expect.04:50
Birdmanhuh04:50
Birdmancrazy stuff04:50
mircea_popescuas far as we know currently, market value of a cs is about 70k or so.04:51
mircea_popescumore than half of which due to bps04:51
*** Joins: Gaxaro (~Blazsword@78-69-34-46-no154.tbcn.telia.com)04:51
GaxaroHi there.04:52
Gaxarohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUNRl3kAATk pretty cool video04:56
lobbesbotTitle: 10 Most Expensive Virtual Items Ever Sold - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)04:57
mircea_popescuanything good ?05:01
Birdmanwell #7 is at like 26k usd05:01
mircea_popescucool.05:02
GaxaroAnyway, if i made a new char, will i keep the copper i made?05:03
GaxaroOr will it be lost?05:04
GaxaroMircea do you know?05:05
mircea_popescuif you delete your old char you mean ? nobody's tried this in a long time, but afaik it will be lost.05:06
Birdmanthe last 5 are all entropia based, and #1 is 6mn usd, pretty crazy lol05:07
BirdmanGaxaro ill hold on to your stuff while you do it if you want05:07
GaxaroAlright05:07
Birdmanmircea_popescu somebody bought the moon, too! familiar aspirations?05:08
mircea_popesculol05:08
BirdmanGaxaro after i finish this stick ill head to town just make note of everything you have to give me and get it all ready05:08
GaxaroOkay i will05:09
GaxaroIt's just copper btw?05:09
Gaxaro!*05:09
mircea_popescuanyway, it's iffy this entire thing. so if tomorrow i make an "entropia item" consisting of basically the magic bag / golden goose but on steroids, paying say 10bn copper/day, and someone buys it for you know, 100k bitcoin or some shit, then therefore "eulora has sold a virtual item for 40mn dollars" ?05:09
mircea_popescubullcrap, basically.05:09
Birdmanyou have nothin else? lol05:09
Birdmanmircea_popescu i guess so but the difference is the money used here is actually money05:10
mircea_popescukinda dubious metric, but anyway.05:10
GaxaroNope i have nothing else05:11
Birdmanim not sure how their whole thing works, you buy a business and charge people entropia moneyz and then you can sell them to other people for dollars05:11
Birdmani doubt the game makers buy back the game stuff05:11
Birdmanomw Gaxaro, how much am i holding on to?05:11
Gaxaro469k05:12
mircea_popescuGaxaro why not just pass it along to jurov ask for half a bitcent or something05:12
mircea_popescuor does he have a minimum higher than that ?05:12
GaxaroI'll think he most likely does i bet.05:13
mircea_popescui guess coupla bux not worth anyone's time like that.05:13
DicePowerThe game makers in Entropia buy items back i.e., that you get in loot.  The amount they pay is the "Trade Terminal Value" of an item.  This might be comparable to the "Base Value" of an item in EU (if for instance, there is an NPC that buys things for Base Value).  However, the Trade Terminal Value of Estate Deeds which represent in your inventory ownership of i.e., the moon, is essentially 0.05:15
Birdmanwait hold on Gaxaro05:16
Gaxarooh okay05:16
Birdmanyou gonna be able to get the skills back?05:16
DicePowerSo if you pay $30,000 for a moon, it only has secondary market value.05:16
GaxaroYeah i will be able to do so.05:16
Birdmanyou have books or items?05:16
GaxaroShit i dont..05:17
Birdmani dont think you start out with any of them05:17
GaxaroNope i wont start out with them05:17
Birdmanwell i can make you a tinkering book but thats about it, mircea_popescu may have others to sell you05:17
GaxaroOkay good.05:18
Birdmanso then i guess wait and see if mp will sell you the skill books, because deleting your character without being able to get them back is a bad idea05:18
DicePowerOut of curiosity, what is the motivation in this situation for wanting to create a new character?05:21
Birdmanreduce building back to 005:21
Birdmanor 1 or whatever05:21
Birdmanlots of money to be made noob mining05:22
GaxaroStrange it says cannot connect to server05:22
DicePowerAhhh, so the concept would be to cycle characters indefinitely.05:22
Birdmanmircea_popescu server is down05:22
DicePowerYou actually get worse returns with skills?05:22
Birdmanwell no you dont have to train them, so they wont level up unless you want them to05:22
Birdmanaahh well you get alot more low q things than high q05:23
Birdmanand sometimes people will pay more for these items than they're worth, so having more of them quality being irrelevant is a good place to be05:23
DicePowerAhh okay05:23
DicePowerWould it also be an advantage to have a stat distribution that favored the lowest possible quality?05:24
Birdmanwhatcha mean?05:24
Birdmanlike make such a shitty character that you're the best at noobing?05:24
mircea_popescuo.O05:24
DicePowerYeah, as I understand, some characters will produce higher quality items than others.05:25
Birdmanyou'd need to know how each stat correlates to the skill lines05:25
DicePowerIs the item just to get as low of quality output as possible, or is it just to take advantage of the low cost of building at 0?05:25
Birdman<DicePower>Yeah, as I understand, some characters will produce higher quality items than others. << not sure thats been tested, if you mean two people at the same level will produce better or worse than the other05:25
DicePowerYeah, that's what I mean.05:26
DicePowerNot 100% sure if it's the case.05:26
DicePowerBut it's what I've gathered from informal discussion in here.05:26
DicePowerMaybe I mistook what someone said.05:26
mircea_popescusooo you managed to crash the server DicePower05:26
mircea_popescuwhat did you do ?05:27
DicePowerHehe I haven't logged in in like 3 days :P05:27
mircea_popescuthen this other guy05:27
mircea_popescuGaxaro what did you do ?05:27
mircea_popescuchar creation crapped out.05:27
mircea_popescuDicePower if for instance, there is an NPC that buys things for Base Value << electron ?05:28
Birdmaninput cost of building isnt dependant on building skill really. the point is that if someone needs lots of grass and the quality doesnt matter to them, they might pay you 60 ecu on a grass that, with your q7 building, and that grass is really worth 60(being the base value)*.07. The game will give you a huge amount more grass to equal your input value since you're getting 60*.07 base value on the grass and you turn around and sell the lot for 1500% profits05:28
GaxaroHmm so the server is down?05:28
mircea_popescuGaxaro what did you do ?05:28
GaxaroErr nothing just deleted my char.05:29
DicePowermircea_popescu:  So Electron guarantees Base Value for items (so that secondary market value is always built on top of Base Value, and no one ever sells for like 90% of Base Value)?05:29
mircea_popescuDicePower i've never seen anything under 120% really.05:29
DicePowerwow05:29
DicePowerBut it would make sense for something to be 100.1% in theory.05:30
DicePowerBut never under Base Value because the seller could just sell it all to Electron?05:30
DicePowerRight?05:30
mircea_popescuGaxaro that's a pretty shitty description you know. literally, just pushed delete, that's all ?05:30
mircea_popescuDicePower yeah. items became useless recently, ppl were offering to buy them at above-electron-value as novelties or w/e. history items.05:30
GaxaroHmhm that's all lol05:31
mircea_popescuwell it didn;t like it.05:31
DicePowerI've deleted my character 38 times, and only once did the server crash, and it seemed to be unrelated.05:31
GaxaroAlright, after that i chose create new char, put the first name and last name05:33
mircea_popescuheh.05:33
mircea_popescuwell ima turn off your account for safety till this can get looked at.05:34
Gaxaroafter that it doesn't really show my char on the standing pad and afterwards i click join05:34
Birdmanehh my bad guys05:35
Gaxarothen after that i get exited from the server lol05:35
GaxaroThat's all i did05:35
mircea_popescuheh.05:35
GaxaroFor that to happen.05:35
GaxaroSo im not really sure what is going on to be honest.05:35
mircea_popescuand if i ask again i'ma hear a 3rd version of "that's all i did"05:35
GaxaroWell let me take pictures of what happens.05:36
GaxaroThought i don't want it to happen again.05:37
mircea_popescuneway, server back in.05:37
mircea_popescuyou can't, your account's wiped. i'll let you know once people get around to testing it, reporting it properly and having w/e hole fixed.05:37
Birdmando you want me to send you the coppers to an address Gaxaro ?05:40
DicePowerSo it sounds like Base Value or Electron Value are the equivalent to Trade Terminal (TT) Value in Entropia.05:42
GaxaroWell, i am honest here and this is what i did step by step. I select creating new character and i name it Blazsword on the first name and on the last i name it Winx. After that i go to the next screen and click join which caused the server to crash.05:43
GaxaroAlso, when it crashed the second time i did the same name Blazsword Winx too and also just clicked join after going to next screen.05:44
GaxaroIt's quite weird but i hope the problem will be fixed.05:45
DicePowerI'm free to help with testing if needed, since I don't mind wiping my character.05:48
GaxaroHmm, if nothing happens with the name you will chose then try Blazsword Winx and see if that causes it?05:50
Birdmani doubt that causes it05:50
GaxaroProberly.05:51
Birdmanyou're on windows right? may be the first to ever try this on windows05:51
GaxaroYeah i am on windows.05:51
DicePowerNope, I was on Windows when I made my 39 characters and deleted the first 38.05:51
GaxaroI was also thinking about recordering what i was doing.05:51
GaxaroThought that's to late now lol05:51
DicePowerWe don't know if it's reproducible even for you.  It only happened once, right?05:53
DicePowerCould have been a fluke or unrelated, unless there's some log to tell who or what causes the crash.05:53
GaxaroIt happend twiche05:53
DicePowerahhh05:54
DicePowerDid you select the "Eulorian" race?05:55
DicePowerOr leave it to the default "Eukidian" or w/e it is called.05:55
GaxaroI left it default05:56
BirdmanGaxaro - https://blockchain.info/tx/790ecac83de953b7117e69d0e900bf15fc164ea0d321fb2446408a3995fb459505:56
lobbesbotTitle: Bitcoin Transaction 790ecac83de953b7117e69d0e900bf15fc164ea0d321fb2446408a3995fb4595 (at blockchain.info)05:56
DicePowerThat's one difference.  I always changed the choice to Eudorian out of compulsion for keep my testing results as variable free as possible. :P05:57
DicePowerThink mircea_popescu said that info isn't even sent to the server though.05:57
Birdmana thought, if one is looting bps, low bouq is more suited to do that right? unless of course the bp q matters in the end maybe even heavier than the ingreds05:58
DicePowerAnyway, I'm not gonna try to replicate the crash unless everyone tells me to.  Don't want to mess up anyone's work.06:01
Birdmanyeah would be pretty bad timing for me06:01
DicePowerkk06:01
Birdmanwell im buying any and all cs for 300% over bv if there's interest to sell em06:04
Birdmani'd be more inclined to buy those basic tools if i didnt have to micro manage their use06:05
Birdmanranks up gathering too fast to just let it go over night06:06
GaxaroAnyway, terrible sorry for crashing the server 2 times. Damn bugs and all.06:07
GaxaroGonna play some entropia i guess while i am waiting.06:08
Birdmantry to make some new records06:09
GaxaroI heard that fruits has gone up in price crazy a lot since pets are back i think06:11
GaxaroNow since my account is wiped. Does that mean i need to make a new account?06:12
DicePowerYeah fruit is like 18 PED per K now or something like that.06:12
GaxaroYup06:12
GaxaroPain to find them tho haha06:13
DicePowerI bought 170k at like 3 or 4 PED per K, sold too soon though, probably got like 7.5 PED per K back.06:13
DicePowerI held them for years should have waited a few more months.06:13
GaxaroYup lol06:14
GaxaroSo what are these new planets hmm06:15
GaxaroBut yeah hit me up when the bug gets fixed.06:38
Gaxaroentropia feels eh dead lol06:48
danielpbarrondid Birdman talk you into deleting?06:57
Birdmansee logs danielpbarron06:57
danielpbarronyeah i just read it all06:57
Birdmanlulzy huh?06:57
danielpbarroni still don't know why Gaxaro was so quick to delete just because you said something06:57
Birdmanto be fair, if it didnt break the game it'd have been in his best interest06:57
danielpbarronno06:58
danielpbarronnot necessarily06:58
BirdmanWell i was explaining to him how he shouldnt have ranked his building, and he could reverse it by making a new character06:58
danielpbarronthe noob building thing was being covered fine by Nidhogg06:58
Birdmanhad lvl 20 building06:58
danielpbarronyeah so?06:58
Birdmanwell obviously not, as it needs doing06:58
Birdmanand one noob can only do so much huh06:59
danielpbarronwhy don't ~you~ ever read the log06:59
danielpbarronone noob was doing plenty06:59
danielpbarronso much plenty that prices were going down06:59
danielpbarronat least it is interesting in that Gaxaro is the first to delete a character that actually had skills06:59
danielpbarronmaybe you could have explained to him how expensive those skills are to get when they aren't given for free07:00
Birdmanwell i told him to hold up and get the numbers on new skill items07:00
danielpbarron100k each if he's lucky07:01
Birdmanright.. and i was going to make him a tinkering book pro bono07:01
Birdmanthough im not sure i warned him before he did it or not07:02
Birdmanbut i tried soon as it hit me07:02
Birdmananyways07:02
Birdmanlvl 20 building is infinitely shittier than lvl 1-2 building if you're needing to noob build07:02
Birdmanguy has 500k ecu, whats he gonna do for work otherwise? im unwilling to hire a lvl 20 builder07:03
danielpbarronuntil noboy wants quality 5 stuff anymore07:03
danielpbarronhe was doing fine i thought07:03
Birdmanmaybe its in his best interest to get a bank roll before going at leveling up07:03
danielpbarronWOW07:03
danielpbarronwhat a pop07:03
danielpbarronover 4k sentiments07:04
Birdmannice q110?07:04
danielpbarronwhy don't i see a message07:04
Birdmani was about to say07:05
danielpbarronshould be 0.04 at least07:05
danielpbarroneven if it was evently distributed over the 3 shaped slags made in the interval..07:06
danielpbarron4484 sentiments and 5611 feelings quality 109 after 4 shaped slags07:08
danielpbarroner.. 5 shaped slags07:08
GaxaroMaan this sucks lol07:09
danielpbarronyou're kinda an impulsive fella ain't cha?07:09
GaxaroI suppose so.07:09
Gaxaroaccount got wiped because i made the server crash 2 times somehow..07:11
danielpbarronso this pop that didn't apparently count as a pop puts my overcraft loot on this 200 shaped slag run at a little over 5 million in quality adjusted base value alone, and i still have 26 slags to make07:11
danielpbarronGaxaro, you're not in trouble07:11
GaxaroOh okay good to know because i thought i was.07:11
danielpbarronand you deleted your character so "account wiped" sounds more dramatic than it actually is07:11
danielpbarronjust glad i wasn't sacrificing when you guys tried this07:13
danielpbarronand glad i set a timer on my phone to wake me up when these slags would have been done so at least i'm awake now to start it up again07:14
* Birdman needs 2 beetle brews, preferably the lowest quality around07:15
danielpbarrondidn't you get a samovar?07:17
Birdmanoh good point07:29
GaxaroOh well im gonna sleep and hopefully the bug is fixed and my account is back lol07:30
*** Quits: Gaxaro (~Blazsword@78-69-34-46-no154.tbcn.telia.com) ()07:30
danielpbarrondidn't he have tools and stuff besides copper?07:32
Birdmannope07:34
Birdmanfound some enums and lbn in town earlier though07:34
danielpbarronhow did he not have tools..07:34
Birdmangood question07:35
Birdmandid he know that the storage exists?07:35
danielpbarroni think so07:36
Birdmanmaybe bare handing was his deal07:36
Birdmanwho knows07:36
danielpbarronno he had tools07:36
Birdmanwell they dont last forever07:36
danielpbarronand i know he dropped some of them out in the field at least once07:36
Birdmanmight've chucked em07:36
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> LOVE YOU diana_coman !!1 <- heh, congrats!09:13
mircea_popescudanielpbarron ready ?12:20
mircea_popescudiana_coman :)12:20
mircea_popescupretty sure i'll be clicking it today.12:20
mircea_popescuwait Birdman does this mean you're paying 60k per cs ?!12:22
mircea_popescuBirdman> to be fair, if it didnt break the game it'd have been in his best interest << fwiw i think it's pretty stupid, but not to interfere with player optionality...12:23
mircea_popescudanielpbarron> why don't i see a message <<< the message thing isn't working quite correctly yet, only sees part of your loot.12:26
mircea_popescuit's on the block to get fixed already.12:26
mircea_popescuBirdman> oh good point <<< lol!12:27
mircea_popescudanielpbarron> and i know he dropped some of them out in the field at least once << lol ridoinculous, tools are what, 2k each after fully spent  ? more ?12:27
danielpbarronmircea_popescu> danielpbarron ready ? << ya12:44
*** Quits: hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)13:14
diana_coman986 wpl 142q danielpbarron mircea_popescu let me know if interested;13:14
danielpbarroni am13:21
diana_comandanielpbarron, 300 per wpl on the spot; alternatively make an offer and I'll wait too see if mp wants to top that13:25
danielpbarron27013:28
diana_coman270 heard13:28
danielpbarronor 267k for the lot13:29
diana_comanmight make it easier yeah; so: 986 wpl 142q heard danielpbarron 267k13:30
*** Joins: DianaComan (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)14:03
*** Quits: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)14:05
mircea_popescudanielpbarron meet me in 20 minutes to settle all this ?14:28
mircea_popescuDianaComan he can take it, that's what i'd have paid also.14:29
mircea_popescubut i'm ready to take wwb delivery if you're around, and also bb or what was it.14:30
DianaComanhm, back to 125 for high q wpl? interesting, might hold on to the rest of it for a while then; anyways: danielpbarron , wpl is yours14:30
DianaComanmircea_popescu, yes, give me 5 min to take out14:30
mircea_popescukk14:30
mircea_popescuand in other news : in ~3 hours i will be doing the apprentice bouq clicking. it looks like i'll have enough material for 4 clicks gathered together, still have to complete ~1mn worth of crafting or so.14:32
mircea_popescui intend to say here what i get as it happens and such, if anyone's curious you can follow along!14:32
* DianaComan is curious14:32
mircea_popescueach click should take about half hour or thereabouts, judging by the bv.14:33
mircea_popescuit's ~6x a cs, so that's like 35 minutes i guess14:33
mircea_popescui am kinda impressed that we went from bp auction to actual clicking in just a shade under two weeks tho. nice work.14:35
DianaComanthat's all it would seem14:37
mircea_popescu1095 * 197 * 1.43 * 1.25 + (8015 + 9487 + 3225) * 141 * 1.42 * 1.25 =5573040.487514:38
mircea_popescu10k from last time was it ?14:38
DianaComanyes14:39
DianaComanuhm14:39
DianaComan1.25*(1.43*1095*197+1.42*8015*141+1.43*9487*141+1.41*3225*141) = 558407714:40
DianaComanso not exactly 2*10k, lol14:40
mircea_popescuo.O14:40
DianaComanit was anyway 7k precisely14:40
mircea_popescucall it even14:40
DianaComanthanks14:41
mircea_popescuthanks!14:41
DianaComancash certainly fell off a cliff14:42
mircea_popescuheh.14:42
DianaComanin any case, seeing how wpl also goes, I suppose the rational thing is to wait and see what the bps go for, since exploring/mining depends on bps too (tools)14:45
mircea_popescuexcept if you bh it14:45
DianaComanbh?14:45
mircea_popescubarehand14:45
DianaComanah, barehanded14:45
DianaComanyeah, sure, then don't expect any such large quantities any time soon14:45
DianaComanwant 1k items? wait 1 week or so14:46
DianaComanand what's that a full stack or a couple of them, lol14:46
mircea_popesculol.14:46
mircea_popescuwell... yeah, but on other hand should fix prices for minerals lol14:46
DianaComanwell, I already did this mistake of eating up the costs of exploring and I certainly do not intend to do it again14:47
DianaComanI was a fool to do it once, won't be an idiot to do it second time round14:47
DianaComanI suppose there will be only low q items for a while - loads of them still , so no problem14:48
DianaComanwell, at least the basics I suppose14:48
mircea_popescuwhen was this ?14:48
DianaComanbefore the mining+lj+farming basically;14:48
DianaComanand certainly back when spirover had the ch14:48
DianaComanthat was the reason why I bought the hoes then in huge quantities14:48
mircea_popescuah, well yeah but i mean retrospectively like that you know... "if i kept these hoes instead of using them they'd be worth more"14:49
DianaComanah, no, I'm not saying that, no14:49
DianaComanI WILL MINE14:49
DianaComanI will just not sell at whatever price14:49
danielpbarroni'm afk and will be back in about an hour14:49
mircea_popescuworks danielpbarron14:49
DianaComankk danielpbarron I'll be back to deliver wpl in about 3hours14:49
danielpbarronk14:50
mircea_popescu2 levels in mcguyver + 1 in tinkering = 500k14:53
mircea_popescufucking ouch.14:53
DianaComanDianaComan> that was the reason why I bought the hoes then in huge quantities <- what I meant here is that the reasoning at that time went like this: exploring is NOT profitable at 125%, therefore the price will have to go up -> price of crafted items will go up too (until everything will stabilise somewhere, but apparently not at 125%) -> hoes at 135% are actually cheap so should get them while they last14:59
DianaComanand I certainly do not regret buying (or using) those hoes , quite on the contrary15:01
DianaComanbasically mircea_popescu as I see it, you want now (again) to stabilise it forcefully at 125% - atm I am not going with it as a blanket approach as it makes no sense for me on things other than basics and pretty much the cheapest of each line maybe, that's all; maybe I'll get to a point where it starts making sense, sure, maybe15:05
mircea_popesculotta presumptions in there tho. if it's true that exploring was not profitable at 125%, you'll have to explain the profit i made exploring. can't simply take personal experience and enact it as reality.15:16
mircea_popescumoreover, can't take your own fancy and enact it as what i want. i dun want anything, but the game complexity will increase over time.15:16
mircea_popescumoreover, it makes relatively less sense to loot blueprints than to loot a meta item. so it's flowing correctly : towards more complexity and more sense.15:17
DianaComanmircea_popescu> lotta presumptions in there tho. if it's true that exploring was not profitable at 125%, you'll have to explain the profit i made exploring. can't simply take personal experience and enact it as reality. <- I'm talking of my own decisions there, don't claim any universality for anything; as to your profit, as I said, basics yes15:17
DianaComanbasics I'm perfectly fine at 125%15:17
mircea_popescuwell what, tlc is selling at 400% or w/e15:18
mircea_popescuiirc i sold a buncha eps at 125-130ish, if that. so i stopped mining rhem for now, and well... nobody came asking, either.15:18
DianaComanso why bring that in discussion since it is not in the "gotta fix price for minerals" re 125%15:18
mircea_popescuhaven't mined any eps in like a month.15:18
mircea_popescuwhat is this "gotta fix price for minerals" re 125% ?15:19
DianaComan<mircea_popescu> well... yeah, but on other hand should fix prices for minerals lol15:19
DianaComandid I get that wrong? it was right after the wpl at 125%15:19
mircea_popescueh, off the cuff remark of no further intension!15:19
DianaComanI took it to be related to that15:20
DianaComanoh well then15:20
mircea_popescuyou know, like, dog gets run over by a truck15:21
mircea_popescu"well... it should fix its mange..."15:21
mircea_popescubut anyway, if you think about it - as it is various higher bvminerals are already on a runway. if you move on to bh mining, supply takes a hike, prices will have to go up.15:23
DianaComanso this is exactly what I said15:23
mircea_popescuproblem is, look at the backfeed.15:25
mircea_popescuif i paid 200% on wpl instead of 130, the numina end of the apprentice calculation would be that much higher, for instance.15:26
mircea_popescumaking bps that much more expensive making tools that much more expensive making15:26
mircea_popescuetc15:26
DianaComanI didn't ask for 200% so the point is moot15:29
DianaComananyway, it was more of a misunderstanding of that remark of yours as something more than it was15:29
mircea_popescuwell ofcoursenot.15:30
mircea_popescuhonestly, there's nothing wrong with asking for a fair price for anyone's wares. that's what the market is after all.15:30
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* danielpbarron is around16:08
danielpbarronmircea_popescu, DianaComan16:08
mircea_popescudanielpbarron aite, gimme teh slagz16:08
mircea_popescudamn. trade 99% done tho, gimme minute.16:09
mircea_popescucraft done i mean16:09
mircea_popescuaand mcguyver 144 nao ftw.16:20
* danielpbarron has quality 111 tinkering!!18:27
mircea_popescuis that good ?18:36
danielpbarronwell it's up from 11018:39
danielpbarronso yes18:39
mircea_popescuwd :)18:39
mircea_popescudanielpbarron omg is it ready yet ?19:58
mircea_popescui said 3 hours 5.5 hours ago, but i honestly have almost everything together! just need those numinizers.19:59
DianaComandanielpbarron, still around so that I take the wpl out?20:02
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danielpbarronhrm20:56
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Birdmanmircea_popescu> wait Birdman does this mean you're paying 60k per cs ?! << yeah21:00
mircea_popescuwell god damn it, at that price you must get some.21:07
mircea_popescuima make you a few, what the hell.21:08
mircea_popesculemme first finish this bps thing and i'll set up a craft.21:08
mircea_popescuBirdman how many do you want ? or is it one of those "as many as i can get" sorta deals ?21:09
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DicePowerHello22:23
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DianaComanhello DicePower22:29
DianaComandanielpbarron, you around?22:29
DicePowerSo how is the file system used in Linux?  What would be a sensible location to stick the directory for step 3 in http://www.eulorum.org/Ubuntu  Does the Linux file system have a parallel to Program Files, AppData, ProgramData, etc.?22:30
lobbesbotTitle: Ubuntu - Eulorum (at www.eulorum.org)22:30
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DicePowerI guess the first to ask is what IDE is desired to compile the code, since it should probably go in a subdirectory of that program.22:33
DicePowerMay as well check on Linux IDEs first.22:33
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DicePowerOf course, the thought process of trying to put thing in the parallel locations to where they would have gone in a Windows file system is probably wrongheaded.22:34
DicePowerBut what else can ya do at first hehe.22:34
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danielpbarronDianaComan, ya22:42
DianaComanarghh, just started a stick; will come back to town as soon as it finishes, ok?22:44
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danielpbarronDianaComan, yep22:45
DianaComankk, eta 10min22:46
danielpbarronDianaComan, i'd make it in ~/22:46
danielpbarronerr, DicePower22:46
DicePowersup22:46
DianaComanDicePower, command line is all you need really for compiling eulora22:46
DicePowerFor making changes to the code though.22:47
DianaComankeep it simple22:47
DicePowerCommand lines are usually terrible for debugging.22:47
DianaComanit is22:47
danielpbarrontype:  mkdir /home/yourusername/dev22:47
danielpbarronaka: mkdir ~/dev22:47
danielpbarronsame thing22:48
DicePowerOkay, just stick everything in your Home folder basically?22:48
danielpbarronalterantively, type:  cd             followed by: mkdir dev22:48
DicePowerJust didn't know if there was a better place to store stuff, like a Program Files or something.22:48
danielpbarronunless you are root for some reason22:48
DicePowerkk22:48
danielpbarronin which case, get out of root and make sure you are only a regular user22:49
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DicePowerMy terminal doesn't say root, so I think I'm a normal user22:50
DianaComandanielpbarron, ready22:51
danielpbarronk22:51
DianaComanDicePower, as daniel says: just create a folder in your home directory, no need to make anything more complicated than that22:52
danielpbarronthanks22:52
danielpbarronyeah don't get crazy with directory structures22:52
DianaComanenjoy22:53
DicePowerkk22:53
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DicePowerIs there a goto IDE for linux, similar to Visual Studio?22:54
DicePowerSomething with a solid debugger and interface optimized for ease of use?22:55
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DianaComanDicePower, it really depends on what you know best22:56
DianaComanbut well, there is Eclipse which is portable, so maybe you know it already22:56
DianaComanon the other hand, gdb is actually *very good* for debugging22:56
DianaComan(command line basically, yes)22:56
DianaComancreate a folder dev in your home folder and then go from there, as the guide says22:56
DicePowerI'd rather have graphics, I'm less good with command line22:56
DianaComantype pwd and it will show you where you are basically (path)22:57
DicePowerEclipse looks reasonably friendly22:57
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DicePowerAre you supposed to just dump application installs in the Home folder as well?23:12
DicePoweror in your user folder rather23:13
DicePowerThis feels a bit disorganized :P23:13
DianaComanif by "application installs" you mean Eclipse, you are fine to dump it there; otherwise ftr there are conventions for linux too, sure23:13
DicePowerYeah, meant Eclipse23:14
DianaComanit doesn't get "installed" as such23:15
DianaComanit's just an application running from its folder and that is that (same on windows in fact)23:15
DicePowerAhh it's portable23:16
DicePowerOh I can just get it straight from the Package Manager23:17
DianaComanmost probably you can indeed23:18
DianaComanyou know, just don't get lost into another rabbit hole pretty much, or you'll probably never quite get to actually play the game23:19
DicePowerLOL23:19
DicePowerGood point23:19
DicePowerOkay, last question before I begin.  Does using an IDE change anything in steps 3-7 (i.e., where I store the dev folder, or perhaps I omit some steps and do them in the IDE instead)?23:31
danielpbarronDicePower> I'd rather have graphics, I'm less good with command line << get good.23:32
DicePowerI'm taking this transition one step at a time lol.  I already got Linux :P23:32
DicePowerNot ready for full on torture yet23:32
danielpbarrontorture is trying to force it into some stupid window manager23:33
DicePowerTorture is having to echo out every variable in Notepad because you don't have an IDE to show you what the value is as you step through :P23:34
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danielpbarronnot notepad.. use vim or nano23:34
danielpbarroni like vim, but that would probably make you freak out23:35
danielpbarroni don't think it's wise to alter the code to such an extent that you need to run it in a special thing23:36
danielpbarronit should be possible to make small incremental changes that you simply test by running the new binary23:36
DianaComanDicePower, gdb shows you the value of any var at any time, lol23:37
DicePowerBut like23:37
DianaComanplus breakpoints etc23:37
DicePowerwhy bother feeling like you're using DOS?23:37
DicePowerWhen better exists23:37
DianaComananyway, trouble with an ide is that you'll need to set up the environment properly to compile the whole thing in there23:37
danielpbarroncommand line is better23:37
DianaComanmeaning esp the CS dependency23:37
DianaComanI don't think that is covered in the wiki and tbh I never bothered23:38
DicePowerI mean, was FoxyBot actually modified entirely in a command line?23:38
DianaComandanielpbarron> i like vim, but that would probably make you freak out <- heh, that's why I've sent him onto eclipse rather23:38
danielpbarronwell nano is easy enough23:38
DicePowererr, was Eulora modified to include FoxyBot entirely in a command line23:38
DianaComanwell, yes it was23:38
danielpbarronthe changes i made to foxybot were done in vim23:38
DicePowerThat's insane23:39
DianaComanthe only thing I like about Eclipse is that it has some useful parts for understanding code bases23:39
DianaComanreason why I did load the code in it; but I never bothered to actually compile in it23:39
DicePowerHow much work is involved in setting up the environment for Eclipse?  It is just a matter of adding some extra libraries, or?23:39
danielpbarroneverything is easier on command line; i get annoyed when i have to open some windows with menus type thing in order to do something23:40
DianaComanneah danielpbarron it's about seeing for instance all references to an object etc23:40
danielpbarroni've set up eclipse when i was coding minecraft plugins23:40
danielpbarronand it is a huge pain23:40
danielpbarroni couldn't possibly remember it let alone explain it23:40
DicePowerSo it's probably just an entirely subjective thing, commandline vs GUI, thus both exist.  I know for myself though, that I do better programming in a GUI.23:41
danielpbarronobjects suck, and can't this all be written in a way to avoid using them?23:41
DianaComanDicePower, I can't quite say what work is involved since I never did it, lol; but I doubt it is very very straightforward if you don't know eclipse anyway; I suppose you'd have to set the dependencies for eulora project to cs at the very least23:42
DicePowerHmmm, maybe I should focus on the Windows compiling instructions again, since it uses Visual Studio by default.23:42
DianaComandanielpbarron, you know, that's what code was in there, so not sure what sense your statement makes in this context23:43
DicePowerJust have to ask jurov to expand on them a bit for me :)23:43
DicePowerBut should be able to manage that easier probably23:43
danielpbarronDicePower, have you even gotten it to run on linux yet?23:43
danielpbarronthe game client that is23:43
DicePowerNo23:43
danielpbarronso do that first23:43
DicePowerI actually thought compiling was the only option for Linux23:44
DicePowerJudging by the instructions23:44
danielpbarronyes23:44
danielpbarrondo that23:44
danielpbarronyou don't need to edit code to compile it23:44
DianaComanDicePower, the *easiest* way to compile on linux is command line, just follow what is on the wiki23:44
DianaComanreally23:44
DicePowerkk23:44
danielpbarronyou can just copy paste the line almost, i don't know why you think it's easier to move a mouse around23:45
DicePowerYeah that part should be easy23:47
DicePowerJust wanted to set myself up for success on the code editing part23:47
DianaComanwalking all the time on tip-toes can result in atrophied muscles and then you certainly find it *easier* to walk on tip-toes - that might explain why he finds it easier to move a mouse around23:47
DicePowerBut I'll try compiling for now23:47
DianaComanDicePower, you can edit the code in anything you like and then still just repeat the process for compile as it is on the wiki23:48
DicePowerBut I wouldn't be able to utility Eclipse's tools because the code wouldn't run at all on Eclipse unless I set up the stuffz anyhow?23:49
DianaComanfalse23:49
DicePower:O23:49
DianaComanit doesn't "run on eclipse" anyway, what would that be?23:49
DicePowerSo what would this strategy look like?23:50
DianaComanhow would I know what your strategy looks like? lol23:50
DianaComananyway, compile it for now, run it, go around a bit23:50
DianaComanthere's plenty of time for everything else, lol23:51
DicePowerThis strategy "you can edit the code in anything you like and then still just repeat the process for compile as it is on the wiki."  Would it be like 1) Take the current code and paste it into Eclipse, 2) edit code in Eclipse, 3) paste back into commandline?  If you got step 2 to work well enough to compile and use the debugging tools in Eclipse, wouldn't step 3 be gratuitous?23:52
DianaComanomg no23:52
DianaComanftr in eclipse just create a project importing the code from wherever you have it23:52
DianaComanthat means it will remain in sync - whatever changes you make23:53
DicePowerkk23:53
DianaComanso no need to copy/paste sheesh23:53
DicePowerSo you don't keep your projects inside the Eclipse directory somewhere like in Visual Studio?23:53
DianaComanuhm, DicePower23:54
DianaComanprojects are still made of physical files you know23:54
DicePowerYeah23:54
DicePowerBut the code is part of those files, isn't it?23:55
DianaComanor what now, books are kept on the shelf and therefore you can write in that book ONLY ON THE SHELF!!!!23:55
hanboti'm pretty curious how DicePower's eulora gameplay will pan out given his approach to things. mayhap he'll unearth various secrets only a total lack of assumptions could reveal. :D23:55
DicePowerLOL I can only hope23:55
DianaComanhanbot, you say he has no assumptions there?23:56
DianaComanI guess that'd be the optimistic view on it23:56
hanbotwell it's a sort of extreme look-before-you-leap operation, as far as i can tell.23:57
hanbotand as the types of approaches grow, possibly also the results. optimistic, yeah.23:58
DianaComanftr DicePower: you can access the same files from anywhere you wish (eclipse, vim, emacs, nano ...) - they are still the same files23:58
mircea_popescuDicePower> May as well check on Linux IDEs first. << and don't come back until you've raised a barn and made some noodles!23:59

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