#Eulora log for Sunday, 2016-02-14

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Birdmanoh man00:03
Birdmandanielpbarron sell me a craft table00:03
Birdmani misplaced mine00:03
danielpbarronk00:04
Birdmanhave 6 ordinary sb enums, one key to an ord sb claim, and 2 ord sb bundles00:04
Birdmanmircea_popescu will you buy some low q ppb?00:05
mircea_popescuyou gotta learn to be specific.00:05
Birdmanq4600:05
Birdmansorry00:05
mircea_popescuthat's 1/200:06
Birdmanoh and probably in the 200 are00:06
Birdmanarea00:06
mircea_popescuthe 200 area ?00:06
Birdman200 of them00:06
mircea_popescuaite. i'm in town.00:07
Birdmanwell im gonna make em over night00:07
mircea_popescuk.00:07
danielpbarronheh, got 12 feelings from makin that table00:09
danielpbarronwhat a strange thing to say00:09
mircea_popesculol00:09
danielpbarronwas gonna undercraft but didn't have low q threads00:10
danielpbarronso there ya go jurov00:10
mircea_popescu<danielpbarron> they should be worth ~something~ << they're actually bv 10.00:11
mircea_popescuso at q 10 they should get exactly 1 copper.00:11
danielpbarronthese ones are q 50 about00:12
danielpbarronoh00:12
danielpbarronnot the feelings00:12
danielpbarronthe supplication drafts00:12
mircea_popescuoh.00:12
mircea_popescuiirc the sup drafts had low bv because the stuff that went into them had low bv in turn00:12
Birdmanyeah, bundles like under 50 ecu00:13
Birdmannot to mention you'd loot thousands of em00:13
danielpbarronstill they are worth ~something~ not 000:14
danielpbarroni understand selling 1 might round down to 0 but selling 10 at once should yield something00:14
mircea_popescumyeah, in theory.00:15
Birdmanmircea_popescu how far along the tinkering books do you think you'll make it to before death?00:17
mircea_popescui dunno. planning to find out!00:28
Birdmanhm, seems i got much less than expected from the sb ords00:38
Birdmansoo lookin at only 27 ppb lol00:39
Birdmanthough if anyone has high q sb for sale ill buy at 125%00:40
mircea_popescuwell Birdman if i ever manage to get wdd i'll dig up some sb remarkables.01:20
mircea_popescusooo01:27
mircea_popescu12:22 - 22:30 yielded just about 4k grass. this is 1/4 of the payload. so work overnight to dig up a remarkable grass ; work for the next 40 hours to thread it all up.01:27
mircea_popescuseems about 4:1 atm01:27
mircea_popescu4k cft i mean*01:28
*** Quits: sueastside (~sueastsid@ip-81-11-218-147.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)02:02
*** Joins: sueastside (~sueastsid@ip-81-11-233-192.dsl.scarlet.be)02:04
danielpbarronup to 54 clicks, $8.34 total : down to 15 cents a click02:42
*** Joins: DicePower (Elite16065@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yzgycwtamnvrkobn)02:45
DicePowerhey hey02:45
danielpbarronyo02:45
DicePowerSo I tried to get into Eulora today and ran into another small hiccup.02:52
danielpbarronwhat's that02:53
DicePowerIn the main menu/character creation room/etc., all of the text is in a huge font, and gets cut off to there point that there are some options you can't read.02:53
DicePowerChanging the screen resolution doesn't fix it.02:54
DicePowerDoes it do this for everyone?02:54
danielpbarronthere is only one option really : male or female02:56
danielpbarronand your name : first and last02:56
DicePowerThere were some other things as well that you could choose, for me.02:56
danielpbarronwell those knobs don't connect to anything if i'm not mistaken02:56
DicePowerFor example, there was something that defaulted to "Enkidukais"02:56
DicePowerBut the only button I could see was "Eulorians"02:56
danielpbarronalthough it would be very interesting if you joined the world as a new race02:56
danielpbarroni'm sure we'd all be your very best friend02:57
DicePowerI'm guessing the avatar picture was covering the "Enkisukais" up02:57
danielpbarroni never tried it, but you can delete your character and presumably make another02:57
DicePowerI'm wondering if the game tracks anything else you pick on the creation screen.02:58
DicePowerFor future implementation.02:58
danielpbarroneach character has unique stats that were once visible to us elders02:58
danielpbarronbut we had not control over them02:58
danielpbarronand it was seemingly random02:58
DicePowerThat sucks02:58
danielpbarronwell can you change your own attributes?02:59
DicePowerNot sure if you can optimize them in game.02:59
danielpbarroni mean you literally02:59
danielpbarronyou were born a certain way, totally out of your control03:00
DicePowerSo to optimize, you have to find a formula that reverse engineers stats through game play experimentation, and then reroll until you get a good character?03:01
danielpbarronno03:01
danielpbarronthe stats are fixed03:01
danielpbarronoh03:01
danielpbarroni see what you mean03:01
danielpbarroni suppose that could work03:01
danielpbarronbut i don't think any of us even knows how to do that03:01
DicePowerThis sounds like the IV issue in the old Pokemon games that made them a nightmare to optimize a team.03:02
danielpbarroni wouldn't worry about it03:02
danielpbarronplayers eventually die anyway03:02
DicePowerReally?03:02
DicePowerYou have to keep making new characters?03:02
danielpbarronbut if you want to optimize, the best suggestion i can offer is look at your max weight capacity03:02
danielpbarronmaybe aim for a ~low~ number as that means you have less strength and more of some stat that is more useful in crafting03:03
danielpbarronwell nobody has died yet as there is not yet any death03:03
danielpbarroni guess no player has eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil yet03:03
DicePowerOh, so it's like you have a fixed number of stat points with a random distribution?03:03
danielpbarroni can only guess03:03
danielpbarronbut my character seems to have the highest weight max03:03
danielpbarronso i can carry the most stuff03:03
danielpbarronbut that doesn't help all that much03:03
danielpbarroni'd rather have more of a stat that make me craft higher quality or something03:04
DicePowerSo if characters can die03:04
DicePowerCan you tell when someone is playing on a new character?03:04
danielpbarronfirst they will be able to marry and make offspring03:04
danielpbarronyou'll know it is them because they will inherit the name03:04
DicePowerhuh?03:05
danielpbarronyou have a first and last name03:05
DicePowerOh, so descendants will have the same last name03:05
danielpbarronthis is a lot of guessing on my part; not much of this has been formally declared by the creator03:05
danielpbarronsomething like that03:05
danielpbarronor a form of it03:06
DicePowerBut if you create two new characters, is there a way for someone to tell they are the same person controlling them?03:06
danielpbarronso far we can't have two characters03:06
DicePowerOh okay03:06
DicePowerI guess another way to ask it is03:06
DicePowerIs your account username private?03:06
DicePower(and only the avatar name used in chat, etc.)03:07
danielpbarroni guess it is03:07
danielpbarronbut i think most people's username is the name they use in here03:07
danielpbarronoh yes, your login name does not have to be the same as your character name03:08
danielpbarronmost aren't03:08
DicePowerYeah that kinda threw me off, since I wasn't using the name in here I normally use in games.03:08
danielpbarroni think only myself and Mircea use our own names as our character names03:08
DicePowerI assume the account name is only for loggin in to the game?03:09
danielpbarronBirdman is Korgan, diana_coman is Foxy, hanbot is Grenadine, Jurov is Grundin, fghj is Nidhogg03:09
danielpbarronthat's correct03:09
DicePowerOkay, no biggie then03:09
danielpbarronyou probably had a notebook full of notes on how to optimize your diablo ii character03:10
DicePowerlol03:10
DicePowerI played Diablo III for a while, but never got that far into it.03:10
danielpbarroni had the perfect magic find barbarian with literally the best magic find armor03:10
DicePowerI don't think characters in D3 had inherent stat values.03:11
DicePowerOkay so for me, the thing isn't BEING optimized.03:11
DicePowerIt's more about not closing doors to eventual optimization.03:11
DicePowerSo inherent character stat values are a big deal to optimize.03:11
DicePowerSince you can't change them later.03:11
danielpbarronmost of the game right now revolves around skills, and the only closing door is your own wallet03:11
DicePowerBut something like getting the most optimized armor isn't as big.03:12
DicePowerSince it can be pushed aside as a later goal.03:12
danielpbarronwe don't have armor yet, or at least not the kind used in battle03:12
danielpbarronsince no death03:12
danielpbarronthe primary activities are : gathering exploration markers, building exploration markers, and crafting resources into products, and products into other products03:13
DicePowerSo we don't know for sure whether the inherent character stat values are passed down generation to generation.03:13
DicePowerSince it's not implemented yet :P03:13
danielpbarronaha03:13
danielpbarronthat's a good question03:13
danielpbarroni wondered that myself03:14
danielpbarronthat seems like a reasonable expectation though03:14
danielpbarroni don't know how you could test which stats you have though03:14
danielpbarronwith the exception of strength03:14
DicePowerWell, how Pokemon speedrunners do it is reverse engineer it based off of some result.03:15
danielpbarronfunny thing is i didn't even try to optimize and i ~saw~ the stats03:15
danielpbarroni just went with my first character03:15
DicePowerSo they will infer that the IV is between 14 and 16 or something based on how much damage they take at one part.03:15
danielpbarronwe elders really had no clue about things when it started03:15
DicePowerhehe03:15
DicePowerSeeing the stats would be MUCH easier, but maybe not necessary.03:15
danielpbarronif i could do it again i suppose i'd aim for high intelligence or something03:16
DicePowerDo you have a list of what the stats were?03:16
danielpbarronthere will be a way to see the stats later in limited shots or something03:16
DicePowerAnd maybe even the range, though that might be asking too much.03:16
danielpbarronno comment03:16
DicePowerNot allowed to give that info :P03:16
danielpbarronnothing isn't allowed03:17
danielpbarroni think that's one of the splash messages03:17
danielpbarronthere are no rules03:17
DicePowerhehe03:17
danielpbarronso far there's an honor system were i don't think anyone tries to mess other players up in some overt way like taking their craft table or something03:18
DicePowerIf I can find a list of the inherent stat values online somewhere, I might try to come up with a formula to reverse engineer the values.03:18
DicePowerNot sure if it would be a 1 person type of task or not though.03:18
DicePowerBut would be easier to do now since I could keep rerolling characters to test it.03:18
danielpbarronyou know, there might be some money in it for you if you do03:19
DicePowerOh nice, hehe03:19
DicePowerEither way, would be a cool science trick03:19
danielpbarronthat's not a promise, i'm not offering to pay03:19
danielpbarroncome to think of it, it sounds like a very expensive task03:20
DicePowerI think what would be necessary to start with is a list of the stat categories (Intelligence, Strength, etc.), and a general idea of what each one affects.03:20
DicePowerIf you had the range each value could take, you could be more precise.03:21
DicePowerExpensive in time or money?03:21
danielpbarronthe only way to get skills is via particular items that are in limited supply03:21
danielpbarronMircea has so far given the main three to all new players03:21
danielpbarronbut i doubt he will give them to you over and over03:21
DicePowerAre the items necessary to test the impact of inherent stat values03:22
DicePower?03:22
danielpbarroni'm not sure if you can tinker without the tinkering skill; that's an open question03:22
DicePowerAhhh03:22
danielpbarronand in fact, i would like someone to try it03:22
danielpbarronmy hypothesis is that it will crash the server03:22
DicePowerLOL03:22
danielpbarrontrying to sacrifice without the sacrifice skill crashes the server03:22
DicePowerSo it logs everyone off?03:23
danielpbarronthat we know03:23
danielpbarronyeah03:23
DicePowerSounds problematic lol03:23
danielpbarronwell not really03:23
danielpbarronit happened exactly twice03:23
DicePowerIs it expensive to try?03:23
danielpbarronmostly because i'm stupid and missed the part in the log where hanbot reported doing it already03:23
danielpbarronyes03:23
danielpbarronvery03:23
DicePowerahhh03:23
danielpbarrononly two of us have sacrifice, and each one of us has 1 altar, and the altars were very expensive03:23
danielpbarronor mine was at least03:24
danielpbarronand there is no way to make more yet03:24
danielpbarronand each attempt to sacrifice does damage to the altar03:24
danielpbarroni have something like 30 to 40 clicks left on mine03:24
DicePowerSo I noticed that this game is very open on things like its loot formula.03:25
danielpbarronopen how?03:25
DicePowerIsn't the loot formula on the wiki?03:25
danielpbarronthat's someone's educated guess03:25
DicePowerohh okay03:25
danielpbarronwhatever you're referring to03:25
danielpbarronthe gist of it is, if you put high quality in and get lower quality out, it's called "overcraft" and you have a chance to get some extra loot to make up the difference03:26
danielpbarronwhich used to be blueprints but that recently changed03:26
danielpbarronnow it's these mysterious intermediary items that presumably will be used to craft into blueprints in another line03:27
DicePowerI can't even find the article I had seen now.03:29
DicePowerI guess there's a pretty low chance that the devs would reveal more info on the inherent stat value system then.03:29
DicePowerWas thinking they already did for loot.03:29
DicePowerI guess you just have to make a character and pray you don't end up with terrible genes :P03:30
danielpbarronseems you should do the praying ~before~ being born if that's the goal03:31
DicePowerSince if you can't reverse engineer a formula because you can't get data points, that also means you can't get data points to brute force check your ability.03:31
danielpbarronif you can tinker and build without the skill, and without crashing the server, then maybe there is a slight chance you could get data03:32
DicePowerEhhh, God has foreknowledge of your prayer before you create the character even if you pray after ;)03:32
danielpbarronwhich God?03:32
DicePowerThat would be really cool to test.03:33
DicePowerI guess any one whose omniscience includes foreknowledge?03:33
danielpbarroni guess i mean are we still being cute or is this an actual belief of yours03:33
danielpbarronanyway, more i think about it the more fruitless this plan seems03:34
DicePowerWell I was just being cute, but I don't see how this type of foreknowledge WOULDN'T follow from omniscience.03:34
danielpbarronyou'd really have to rank up your skill to see for sure how your stats effect it03:34
danielpbarronyou're right and not only that, but God would have created you to pray it03:35
DicePowerYup, at least created you knowing you would pray it.03:35
danielpbarronnot just knowing, making you pray it03:36
DicePowerWell, that's debatable.03:36
DicePowerIf you're a Calvinist, yeah.03:36
danielpbarronI'm up for a debate, and no I'm not a Calvinist as I don't believe in limited attonement03:36
DicePowerIf you think libertarian free will is a thing, not so much.03:36
danielpbarroni don't, or at least not any will that is outside of God's will03:36
DicePowerIf I may be so bold as to ask, how does i.e., sin, redemption, punishment, make sense if our "free" decisions are ultimately determined by God?03:38
danielpbarronit doesn't need to make sense03:38
danielpbarronyou just need to believe it03:38
DicePowerBut if there was a Biblically consistent interpretation of divine sovereignty and free will that DID make sense, wouldn't that be the preferred interpretation?03:39
danielpbarronman "prefers" evil, he thinks of it every day03:40
DicePowerIf someone performs a certain action, say willingly pushing someone off of a building, he is morally accountable for the action, but if a third person PUSHED him into the person who fell, he is not accountable, because he was pushed, he had no choice in the matter.03:43
DicePowerSimilarly, if we have no true freedom to perform one action versus another, how can we be accountable for our choices?03:43
mircea_popescuo hey didja manage to get in ?03:43
DicePowerHeya, I got in, but haven't made it past character creation yet :P03:44
mircea_popesculol whyssat ?03:44
DicePowerMy font was all huge and cut off, and it was hard to see what the options were.  Enkidukais VS Eulorians, etc.03:45
mircea_popescuDicePower> I'm wondering if the game tracks anything else you pick on the creation screen. << nope.03:45
danielpbarronDicePower, Romans 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?03:45
mircea_popescuanyway, there's no option outside of picking a name for yourself and a gender03:45
mircea_popescuDicePower> So to optimize, you have to find a formula that reverse engineers stats through game play experimentation, and then reroll until you get a good character? <<< now this i wanna see.03:46
DicePowerhehe03:46
danielpbarronsomeone would have to supply him the skill books03:46
mircea_popescudanielpbarron> i guess no player has eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil yet << quite exactly!03:46
mircea_popescudanielpbarron well he could buy 'em, but i mean... so what ? what do you otpimize for even ?03:47
danielpbarronand to continue that analogy, work is still relatively easy in the world of Eulora03:47
danielpbarronyes he would buy them, but who would sell so many?03:47
danielpbarronor are those books easy to make?03:47
danielpbarronwith plentiful blueprints03:47
mircea_popescuwell, what was it, 100k ish each ? not the end of the world.03:47
mircea_popescuah there is that.03:48
mircea_popescuDicePower> So if characters can die << the idea is you get married or kidnap and rape some slavegirl or something and have kids. then the family passes on as it were.03:49
mircea_popescudynastic game.03:49
DicePowerLOL03:49
DicePowerPasses on your character's inherent stat values?\03:49
mircea_popescumyeah. it'll be complicated.03:50
mircea_popescusuffice it to say you'll want a lot of kids to have a good litter to pick from, and the services of witches, mages and oracles will come in handy.03:51
mircea_popescubut the trade in mates is intended to be a major economic factor.03:51
DicePowerWhich is along the same lines as re-rolling your original character over and over to get a good one.03:51
DicePowerIf there is some way to text your own stat values for free.03:51
mircea_popescupretty much, except as an in-game mechanic rather than an inept metagame minimaxing thing03:51
mircea_popescuanyway, come in already, ima give you some starter stuff.03:52
DicePowerDo you know if these inherent stat points are fixed in number and distributed in different in ways, or if the total number varies?03:52
mircea_popescuof course i know. i designed it.03:53
DicePowerOh nice :D03:53
mircea_popescuall i'm gonna say about it is that it's fucking brilliant.03:53
mircea_popescuDicePower> If I can find a list of the inherent stat values online somewhere, I might try to come up with a formula to reverse engineer the values.  << aaaahahahaha. o god. you should read the old logs where we're trying to answer much simpler question,s uich as "what is the fair value of this here item" or "is higher skill better than lower skill"03:54
DicePowerrofl!03:54
danielpbarronwait.. is that weird tree supposed to be the one with forbidden fruit?03:56
mircea_popescureally, it's nice you're into science, but prepare for a monstrous task ahead of you. afaik not a single thing has been reversewd yet.03:56
DicePowerCan you say this much, can a character reach an optimized hidden stat level through game play, or are some characters born better than others, with no way to adjust the difference except by rolling a new character?03:56
mircea_popescuit's more like, there's optimal jobs for various players, which is your taks to determine.03:57
mircea_popescumuch like irl.03:57
mircea_popescunobody offs himself to "Be reborn" because he wasn't born a blonde03:57
mircea_popescuinstead, finds a job a brunette can do.03:57
DicePowerOkay, I think I understand.03:57
DicePowerIt's going to drive me crazy, but I get it :P03:58
mircea_popescubut hey, the numeric method is the numeric method, go knock yourself out.03:58
mircea_popescuthe game, much like nature, answers all questions, in its own wya.03:58
DicePowerIf I DID come up with a formula somehow, it would become like Pokemon I think.03:59
mircea_popescuhowssat ?03:59
DicePowerWhere you just have to keep resetting until you get the stats you want.03:59
mircea_popescu(i've never played pokemon)03:59
DicePowerI played the old Pokemon games, which had a similar system of inherent stat values.03:59
mircea_popescuin general - it's more likely you;'ll find a better solution in game than outside the game.04:00
danielpbarroni have pokemon red for original gameboy04:00
DicePowerSo I guess there are two ways that one might want to approach the game.04:02
DicePowerThe first would be to find a task that their character is skilled at.04:02
DicePowerThis would be like the real life analogy.04:02
danielpbarronyou'd be the first04:03
DicePowerThe other would be to decide what tasks they want to be good at in advanced, and produce a character that's good for those tasks.04:03
mircea_popescueh04:03
mircea_popescudid it just crap out ?04:03
danielpbarronbah, it did04:03
mircea_popescuda fuck was this.04:03
danielpbarroni was mid build on an ordinary, luckily i locked the claim!04:04
danielpbarron(best tip ever)04:04
mircea_popescu:)04:04
danielpbarronwell now's a good time to test tinkering without the skill04:04
danielpbarronDicePower, make a character and let's have you craft something real quick04:05
DicePowerHmm, don't think I'm gonna try again tonight, but will get with you to test it out before I get the skill.04:06
danielpbarronwell thing is i'm pretty sure it'll crash the server04:07
danielpbarronso it would be best to do it right after a reset04:07
danielpbarronas it surely woudln't make anyone pissed off04:07
DicePowerhaha04:07
danielpbarronright now whatever foxy was doing is now stopped04:07
danielpbarronhaven't been able to test yet because so far all new players enthusiastically eat up their skill items as soon as they get them04:08
danielpbarroneven bagels7 who i specifically instructed before hand not to do04:08
mircea_popesculol at the rate this guy is going... full weekend to get past the "pick m/f and write down your name" screen...04:10
mircea_popescuhe'll be lvl 1 in some skill in no time. 2020-2030, something there.04:10
DicePowerYeah, I'm reeeeeeally slow when I start a new game :P04:10
DicePowerDon't want to do anything wrong lol04:10
DicePowerLike to be very awake when I start and such04:11
DicePowerdanielpbarron:  I'm not a Biblical scholar or anything of the sort, but I'm reading the context in Romans 9, and looking at commentary Online, and it seems to me that the intention of Romans 9:20 is not to teach God's sovereignty in the context of explaining free will, but to teach God's sovereignty in deciding to allow gentiles to be saved, as opposed to the saved being determined by birthright.04:21
DicePowerI'm skeptical that a view of free will is being taught here, even though the analogy given in the verse doesn't enter freedom of the will into play.04:23
danielpbarronRomans 9 makes reference to the hardening of Pharoh's heart in the time of Moses04:31
DicePoweryes04:31
danielpbarronyou should also be skeptical that "free wll" is taught anywhere in The Bible04:33
DicePowerWell I don't think it needs to be.  I have a very strong sense of having free will in my every day life.  I would need a pretty compelling Scriptural reason to explain away my belief in freedom of the will, because I experience it every day.04:37
DicePowerBut04:37
DicePowerI DO think many things in the Bible strongly imply free will.04:37
DicePowerIn a libertarian sense.04:37
danielpbarronhow could you know such a thing04:37
danielpbarroncan the God who created you not also make you believe that you decide things on your own?04:38
DicePowerI take it as a basic belief, in the way I take "not living in the Matrix" as a basic believe.  The fact that I live in a real world is grounded in my everyday experience, so I think I'm rational to accept it until I have a reason to give up the belief.04:39
mircea_popescuanyway, seems the db server died. this may take a little.04:39
DicePowerSimilarly, it seems rational to accept that we have freedom of the will based on our experience, unless there is a reason to give that belief up.04:40
danielpbarronDicePower, to your credit : you can only believe in the God I have described if He ~makes~ you believe04:40
danielpbarrona sort of catch-22 if you will04:40
DicePowerJust to be clear, I do think we're talking about the same God.  I don't want to be confusing and imply that your God is a different God because of a disagreement over a certain doctrine.04:42
danielpbarronbut it is exactly that, a different god04:42
danielpbarronmy God makes people believe in Him or not, and yours doesn't04:42
DicePowerI'm not sure that makes the two descriptions "different Gods," any more than two biographies of someone that conflict on a couple minor details are describing different persons.04:44
DicePowerAre they?04:44
danielpbarronwell one or both of the biographies in your example are wrong04:45
DicePowerMuch less two interpretations of the SAME biography.04:45
DicePowerCorrect04:45
DicePowerOne or both are wrong.04:46
DicePowerBut they're describing the same person.04:46
DicePowerAre they not?04:46
danielpbarronhow can a biography be wrong and yet still describe the person it claims to describe04:46
danielpbarronrather, it is describing a false personal invented by the author04:47
danielpbarronperson*04:47
danielpbarronfictitious even04:48
DicePowerThat seems bizarre to me, if you say "Greg left the house early to go for a jog" and it turns out that he actually went for a drive, the name "Greg" in your sentence was still referring to the same person you refer to in true sentences about him, isn't it?04:50
DicePowerSimilarly, if one person says "Julie has 1000 hairs on her head," and another says "Julie has 10001 hairs on her head," they're both referring to the same Julie?04:50
danielpbarronimagine they said a wrong thing about you04:54
DicePowersure04:54
danielpbarronand you were here to defend yourself, but they insisted anyway04:54
danielpbarroneven saying "he spells his name 'DicePowerr'"04:55
danielpbarronit's not a strange concept, to have false gods. The Bible mentions many04:58
danielpbarronbelievers of which are convinced that these gods have powers04:58
danielpbarronsacrificing to them and worshipping them04:58
DicePowerRight04:58
danielpbarronif asked, they would say "mine is the true God"04:58
danielpbarronbut they are clearly not describing the True God04:59
DicePowerFully agree05:00
danielpbarronThe Bible also says that His believers will be of "one mind"05:00
danielpbarronthey will be one "body" which is Christ's05:01
danielpbarronhow can one who has a false believe and is headed towards hell be of the same body as one who believes correctly and is headed towards the kingdom of heaven?05:01
danielpbarronis Christ's body to be rended apart?05:02
DicePowerOf course not, it will be with the believers in the kingdom of heaven.05:03
danielpbarronnot just with, but Christ ~is~ the kingdom of heaven05:03
DicePowerThe problem I have is with the statement "how can one who has a false believe and is headed towards hell."  It seems to me like you might be saying that ANY false believe about God makes it impossible for the holder to be redeemed from the path toward hell.05:06
danielpbarronnot impossible05:07
danielpbarronthat's why i use the words "headed towards"05:07
danielpbarronbut it is not of their own will that they can become saved, but by Christ05:07
DicePowerRight, but the salvation is primarily from the punishments of sin, not the punishments of having inaccurate information, yeah?05:08
DicePowerSo even if one had their theology 100% ironed out and correct05:08
DicePowerThey would still be guilty of sin.05:09
DicePowerThey would still require Christ for their salvation.05:09
danielpbarronwe are all guilty of sin05:10
DicePowerofc05:10
DicePowerThere are probably no two theologians that agree with each other on EVERYTHING about God.05:11
DicePowerThere are some things that are essential to get right.05:12
danielpbarronthat may be, but there are indeed at least two men on earth who agree on The Bible05:12
danielpbarronand I am one of them05:12
danielpbarronerr. my "that may be" was in reference to your theologian statment05:12
mircea_popescuanyway, server back on.05:12
danielpbarronthe entire Bible is "essential" ; there are no essential parts vs non essential parts05:13
mircea_popescuDicePower come in, i'll give you some starter stuff.05:13
DicePowerI appreciate it.  I'll probably jump in tomorrow, like to be well rested starting a new game ;)  Plus I'm using the computer it's installed on for something else right now.05:14
DicePowerI'm on a different laptop05:14
mircea_popescua ok05:14
DicePowerEverything in the Bible is important, inspired, and inerrant, but not everything is essential to being a follower of Christ, is it?05:16
DicePowerFor example, different translations use different words.05:16
DicePowerYet two people with different translations can both be Christians, can't they?05:17
danielpbarronthere is no one correct translation05:17
DicePowerIn Revelation 6:8, some translations reference a gray horse, while my NRSV references a green horse.05:19
danielpbarroni like NKJV and it says 'pale'05:20
DicePowerThe horse is either gray or green, if two people have two different translations, one might be right about the matter and the other wrong.05:20
DicePowerOr both wrong05:20
DicePowerBut both people can still be Christians.05:20
DicePowerBecause that part of the Bible is not essential for salvation.05:20
danielpbarroni would say that part is indeed essential, in that we must agree on it05:21
DicePowerin order to be saved?05:21
danielpbarronyes05:21
danielpbarronin order for us ~both~ to be saved05:21
danielpbarronif the color of this horse were really a contentious issue between us, I'd say check the original language from which it was translated, and compare the word used with the same word in other passages05:22
DicePowerSo if someone only read the NRSV, and it was incorrect on that matter, and if the person wasn't aware of the alternative and had no reason to change their view on the issue.05:23
DicePowerThat person could not be a Christian?05:23
danielpbarronwho made them only read that version?05:24
DicePowerLimitations in time preventing them for reading every translation?05:24
DicePower*from05:24
danielpbarronwho limits time?05:24
DicePowerGod's model of human life.05:25
DicePowerUltimately God05:25
danielpbarron:)05:25
DicePowerI give you credit for consistency :)05:25
DicePowerYou hold your view on the necessary conditions of salvation to its most far reaching consequences.05:26
mircea_popescuDicePower except horses can't be green.05:41
DicePowerhttp://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/mirror_mirror.JPG05:45
mircea_popesculol05:45
DicePowerWas looking for an actual My Little Pony pic, I guess there's not a green one :P05:45
mircea_popescubut seriously, horses can't be green anymore than you can have a baby with green hair. it's just not in the genes.05:46
DicePowerMaybe new genetic mutations will occur before end times?  :P05:47
mircea_popescueven so. the pigment space is very constrained.05:47
mircea_popescui dunno how much you care about microbiology, but let's just say it's a narrow tube, you can't fit any random thing in there.05:48
DicePowerSo like, it takes more DNA to make a green thing than a brown thing or something like that?05:49
mircea_popescuif you look for green animals, you mostly find insects, and in general they obtain the pigment from the diet rather than synthesize it.05:49
mircea_popescuthere's just no [biologically] cheap green to be had.05:50
DicePowerDo the insects pass their green on generation to generation?05:50
DicePowerLike does it affect them epigenetically?05:50
mircea_popescutis not very well studied.05:50
DicePowerahhh05:50
mircea_popescumeanwhile biologically cheap brown - heck, that's the cheapest. most mammal coloration comes off conjugated bilirubin, much like most plant coloration comes off chlorophile05:51
DicePowerThat's really interesting that one color is easier to obtain than another.05:52
DicePowerDid not know that.05:52
mircea_popescuyeah. very wide variance.05:53
DicePowerI guess purple is a hard one in animals.05:53
DicePowerSeen in plants a lot, like green.05:53
mircea_popescumost color is metallic ions ; most biology uses metals sparsely. there's a tension there.05:53
mircea_popescuthe plants are colored principally by carotenoid pigments. the more recent (and most advanced) is the green chlorophyll.05:54
mircea_popescuancient blue equivalent (xantophyll) is still deployed by algae etc.05:55
mircea_popescuactually the reason leaves color in the autumn is that as the conditions worsen, the more recent (and more expensive, and more demanding) infrastructure dies off exposing the more ancient, less efficient but more hardy.05:55
mircea_popescuplants die each year by going back through history of life on earth.05:56
DicePowerheh05:56
DicePowernice05:56
mircea_popescua pigment, specifically, is colored because it ABSORBS light05:57
mircea_popescuthe obvious interest in light absorption is photosynthesis05:57
DicePowerCould a new larger tube itself be a genetic mutation?05:57
DicePowerLike a mutation to hold more information?05:58
mircea_popescuno. the tube is given by thermodynamics, and won't ever change.05:58
DicePowerWell, insofar as thermodynamics is constant :P05:59
mircea_popescuaha.05:59
mircea_popescuyou can practically make a larger tube, but that has its own drawbacks.05:59
mircea_popesculonger*05:59
DicePowerGetting my green horse might be worth abandoning classical particle physics for something new.06:00
diana_comanDicePower> I think what would be necessary to start with is a list of the stat categories (Intelligence, Strength, etc.), and a general idea of what each one affects. <- essentially nobody knows that really07:42
diana_comanDicePower> I guess you just have to make a character and pray you don't end up with terrible genes :P <- I think the point is that you make a character and then figure out how to best play what you got07:44
diana_comanand that is again with a "child" - just as you would with an actual child, you first need to figure them out sort of speak07:44
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mircea_popescudamn... overnight cft crafting, half level of sortage, 1/4 level of tinkering.14:08
mircea_popescuanyway, auction starting in a little under 3 hours, everyone get ready!14:09
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danielpbarronhaha i ain't missin' this one16:40
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hanbotif anyone's interested i'ma have another set of hammers to auction off after today's main auction. five of em.16:50
hanbotthey're the best things to happen to mining since slave labor!16:52
mircea_popesculet's get this show on the road!17:00
mircea_popescuand 10 minute tail activated a minute ago!17:28
danielpbarronso far i've been recording all this on video18:08
danielpbarronthinking maybe it'll look cool in fast motion18:08
danielpbarronand today i learn that i can stop the recording (which starts it rendering) and then start a new recording while the first is still rendering18:09
danielpbarronand when hanbot returns, i get to see if it can handle 3 at once18:09
danielpbarroni bought the thorn thinking it would be nice to mix with my piles of thorns to make them all higher quality, but i see that it has crafter mark for Voyna and now i'm not sure if i wanna clobber that18:11
diana_comanbut is it just a plain three-pointed thorn danielpbarron ?18:12
danielpbarroni'm not sure18:13
diana_comanaha18:13
danielpbarroni wasn't able to put it in my storage because of what i thought was a new message "take it out of container first"18:13
danielpbarroni have that no video18:13
danielpbarronbut maybe i maxed out my lumber category (also possible)18:13
danielpbarronthe description is the same as usual thorns18:13
danielpbarronunlike my 1mn quality basic tools18:14
danielpbarronfor which reason i may never end up using them18:14
danielpbarronif i didn't use them while blueprint looting was a thing, i don't know why i would ever18:14
mircea_popescuturns out we'll be having a little bit of trouble with the mysql yet again.18:14
mircea_popescugame should be back in ~15. sorry everyone.18:14
danielpbarronaha, has this something to do with my inability to store the thorn?18:15
mircea_popescuquite likely.18:15
danielpbarronthere was a lot going on at the time but i coulda sworn it was a totally new error message18:15
mircea_popescuaite, server back on. everyone please review your inventories, all good ?18:27
hanbotlooks good here18:28
hanbotauction resuming in 5 mins unless there are further evils18:29
diana_comanuhm, I seem to have lost some ibs (I was just making it throughout the auction and afterwards)18:29
diana_comanprolly some 100 max so nothing major though18:29
mircea_popescumyeah. im not reconstructing that by hand. bullshit server burp.18:29
diana_comanwill add them to the list of losses, lol18:29
mircea_popesculol18:29
mircea_popescusorry bout that.18:29
danielpbarroni had nothing in my inventory but my sentimental craft table and the won thorn18:30
danielpbarronuh oh, thorn missing18:31
mircea_popescuno ?18:31
danielpbarronnm18:31
danielpbarronit got moved somehow18:31
danielpbarronhad to scroll down18:31
mircea_popescucuz i had to put it back in.18:31
danielpbarronoh lol18:31
mircea_popescu:p18:31
mircea_popescuaite, let's resume.18:31
hanbotskulking three-pointed thorn!18:31
danielpbarronit stored this time :D18:32
mircea_popescu:p18:32
hanbot(auction continues!)18:34
mircea_popescudid it die again ?18:36
diana_comanomg, it seems so18:36
diana_comancraft blocked18:36
hanboti've been silenced!18:36
mircea_popescuwhat the everloving fuck, it's not crashed just blocked.18:36
mircea_popescuand no load on the server, wtf is this.18:36
mircea_popescunovel hell18:36
mircea_popescuaaaand it's not coming back up. disk corruption ? who knows. stay tuned to the shitshow of wonder and mystery - it had all this crap saved up over months of smooth functioning for the auction sunday special!18:41
hanbotaww. well, danielpbarron, saving your 8mn bid on the desspayr things. godspeed to server.18:43
danielpbarronthanks18:43
Birdmanauction is in game?18:43
danielpbarronloool18:43
hanbotsunday auctions always are18:44
danielpbarrondon't worry i got it all on video, you can watch it on my youtard channel in the future18:44
Birdmansweet18:44
danielpbarronlotsa editing needed for this one i'm afriad18:44
mircea_popescummmkay, we should be back again, again.18:45
mircea_popescuda fuck.18:45
mircea_popescusorry everyone.18:46
hanbotoh hey18:46
hanbotthat was better than advertised!18:46
Birdmanno complaints here, works out in my favor18:46
mircea_popesculet's just hope it sticks.18:46
hanbotresuming auction in 5 mins18:47
Birdmanheh lost my table again18:48
mircea_popescudanielpbarron we're back in biznis.18:50
danielpbarroncoming!18:51
mircea_popescuo look, 7 players. that's a record is it.18:52
mircea_popesculol hanbot got totally reamed18:59
hanbotindeed ;/18:59
mircea_popescuapparently people have no problem whatsoever bidding a package up to 140mn, that they won't pay 70mn total for the parts.18:59
hanboty'all're....well i still like you anyway.18:59
juroverror at the side of auctioner, i suppose19:02
Birdmanmircea_popescu could i pay you 160k for 3 of your apprentice considerations?19:05
Birdman1.6mn**19:05
mircea_popescuhahaha. nope.19:06
Birdmanwas worth a shot19:07
Birdmancan i pay you ~something~ for them?19:07
jurovdear Birdman, do such shots before auction19:07
mircea_popescui don't think i'd sell for 100mn19:07
jurovI'd have auctioned more if anyone liek you has shown the interest19:07
mircea_popescumore what jurov ?19:08
jurovfor the bouq considerations19:08
mircea_popescuoh.19:08
mircea_popescubtw danielpbarron hanbot selling any incons sacrifice tokens ?19:09
Birdmani thought my interest was clear for the bouq stuff19:09
jurovYou were wrong.19:09
danielpbarronperhaps19:09
danielpbarronprobably a good time to try a reverse auction, or dutch auction as some call it19:10
danielpbarronif hanbot is up for it19:11
Birdmani dont think anyone wants to do dutch auctions19:11
mircea_popescudanielpbarron what q and how much ?19:11
Birdmani think you should just list a price and if she wants to under cut you then so be it19:11
danielpbarronBirdman, that's basically a dutch auction19:11
mircea_popescuima brb eating.19:12
* hanbot is unfamiliar with dutch auctioning19:12
danielpbarronmost of mine are just under 400 quality19:12
hanbotbut does indeed have tokens19:12
danielpbarronin a dutch auction the bidding goes down rather than up19:12
Birdmanhanbot its people bidding eachother down to be the one to provide the good or service19:12
danielpbarronbidding is between sellers rather than buyrs19:12
danielpbarronit's how they sell most cut flowers in the netherlands19:13
hanbotaha19:13
danielpbarronalthough our imense quality difference may be problematic19:13
danielpbarroneven my lowest quality tokens are over 10019:13
danielpbarroni'm gonna have to ponder it for now; i don't want to rush into this19:14
hanbotmine are mostly in the low 100s19:14
hanbotmircea_popescu only inconsequentials are useful here, not grotesques?19:14
danielpbarroni got those too19:14
danielpbarronas high as 40k quality19:14
mircea_popescuonly inconsequentials.19:24
mircea_popescuand btw, anyone wanna auction some rotten teeth ? snakeskins ? md ? tlc ? dm ?19:29
mircea_popescualso, anyone selling bouq numina items ?19:31
jurovif anyone gives me anything to bouquinize, there will be some19:32
mircea_popescuwhat'd you need jurov ?19:34
jurovi don't even know19:34
mircea_popescuah drat, you make them low q do you ?19:34
jurovjust sho into the dark19:34
jurovquite.19:34
mircea_popescui want them as high as can be had.19:34
diana_comanmircea_popescu, what do you pay for bouq numina?19:34
mircea_popescubasically, i only have 100 shots at this thing - if i don't loot more than i burn the line dies out.19:35
mircea_popescudiana_coman what q ?19:35
diana_coman104q19:35
diana_comancollected library dusts19:35
mircea_popescummm19:35
diana_coman1 pile of them19:35
diana_coman999919:36
mircea_popescu130k!19:36
danielpbarron150k!19:37
diana_comanha, go on, I'm listening19:37
diana_coman150k heard19:37
mircea_popescudarn. these are the base 10 ones right ?19:37
diana_comanyes19:37
mircea_popescu160.19:37
diana_coman160k heard19:38
danielpbarronwell i can't really use them, i just thought 130 sounded way too low19:39
mircea_popescuthis is so exciting :D19:39
diana_comanit was basically 1.25% on bv adjusted for q19:39
danielpbarronyeah mine was a little under 1.5% i think19:39
diana_comanhanbot, any use for thee library dusts?19:40
*** Joins: fghj (~fghj@gti6.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)19:40
diana_comanhi fghj how's it going?19:40
diana_comanDicePower, did you ever get in the game?19:41
mircea_popescuwait, so who got the black of desspayr ?19:41
fghjok I think19:41
mircea_popescudoh danielpbarron got away with it.19:42
mircea_popescuyou making some danielpbarron ?19:43
mircea_popescualso diana_coman : you selling that wheel bp already ? :D19:44
diana_comanwell, you know what? I'll sell 1 bp for 1 scone (lj skill), how is that?19:45
mircea_popescudo i have scones ?19:45
diana_comanI think you have 119:45
diana_comanlol19:45
* diana_coman knows mircea's inventory better than himself! 19:45
mircea_popescui do!19:45
diana_comanaha19:45
mircea_popescuhm... but it's my last scone!19:46
diana_comanwell, not as if I have loads of wheel bps, you know19:46
mircea_popescutell you what - 2 bps and it's a deal.19:46
mircea_popescuthinking about it, i paid 25mn for a pair didn't i.19:47
diana_comanand I paid 45mn for the pebbles, lol19:47
mircea_popescuand grenadine basicallyo donated 70mn to s.mg lol.19:47
mircea_popescubest player ever!19:47
diana_comannot really a deal since I can make the wheels with those bps19:47
danielpbarronmircea_popescu> you making some danielpbarron ? << you selling amuples?19:48
mircea_popescuok, so how much for a wheel diana_coman ?19:48
diana_comanI'll have to calc on that19:48
mircea_popescudanielpbarron trying to get them made now, yeah.19:48
diana_comanamuples lol19:48
danielpbarroni bought the desspayr thing because it sounded the most altary19:49
mircea_popesculol this game is so integrated.19:49
danielpbarronalthought looking again maybe the charcoal is19:49
mircea_popescudanielpbarron nah they were chained, and i forgot19:49
mircea_popescushould have outbid you really.19:49
diana_comanI also thought it sounded altary; isn't it?19:49
mircea_popescunah charcoal -> ampoules -> ink -> conceptions.19:50
danielpbarronwell it's.. surprise surprise.. a gung-ho gumbo recipe!19:50
diana_comanaha19:50
diana_comanloool19:50
mircea_popescuampoules are lapidary.19:50
diana_comanha19:50
danielpbarronaha so glad i didn't bid on that too much19:50
diana_comanHA19:50
diana_comanso then I should buy ampoules rather19:50
danielpbarronat least got something i can theoretically use19:51
mircea_popescuwhat'd you do with them diana_coman ?19:51
danielpbarronwell no you want ampule recipes19:51
danielpbarronampule is an ingredient for desspayr19:51
mircea_popescuampule ? aipule!19:51
danielpbarronhowever19:51
diana_comanif they are lapidary, I can make the stuff and then sell it , no?19:51
mircea_popescudiana_coman well they takle charcoal.19:51
diana_comanlol, you are still trying to get everything as it were19:52
mircea_popescuMINE MINE MINE!!119:52
diana_comanmircea_popescu, what would you charge for 1 US?19:53
mircea_popescuuh.19:53
mircea_popescuyou got moluscs ?19:53
mircea_popesculol two hours auctioning -> 12 hours' post-auction discovery, trade and negotiations.19:54
* diana_coman has some cheez if only she can find it!19:54
danielpbarronhey don't you need mega high quality?19:54
mircea_popescuideally danielpbarron19:54
danielpbarronoh this is not for the new thing19:54
mircea_popescuit is.19:54
diana_comanso I have 7 cheezez mircea_popescu19:54
diana_comandoes that help?19:55
danielpbarroni tried to match my mollusc price with what diana_coman quoted19:55
danielpbarronmine are a slightly better deal even19:55
mircea_popescudiana_coman with your own cheese us is not problematic, other than the bps involved. i have tm and ddl pre-made19:55
mircea_popescudanielpbarron how much is it ?19:55
diana_comandanielpbarron, I'm not surprised seeing how yours are really a different making, lol19:55
danielpbarron200k for 1337 quality19:56
mircea_popescuo.O19:56
diana_comanso mircea_popescu if I provide the cheez, how much for 1 us? and no, I can't provide the bps I'm afraid19:56
danielpbarronwhat can i say, apparently they are really hard to get19:56
mircea_popescu;;calc 1963 * 13.3719:56
mircea_popescu762% huh19:56
mircea_popescuwell diana_coman i can't quite a cash price. let's set this aside and move to the next node. you get an us and ?19:57
mircea_popescuquote*19:57
diana_comanand I can make a wheel to sell to you, lol19:58
mircea_popescuok so you give me cheese, i give you us, you give me wheel. how much do you want for this ?19:58
diana_comanwell, it depends on how much I have to pay for the us, no?19:58
mircea_popescuyou don't, it's a package deal. just the net.19:58
danielpbarronhttp://logs.minigame.bz/2016-02-13.log.html#t23:10:50 >> getting molluscs is a huge, angry, stuck up bitch really; atm I'd have to charge like 25k to feel fine about getting and selling molluscs (141q)19:59
lobbesbotTitle: #Eulora log for Saturday, 2016-02-13 (at logs.minigame.bz)19:59
danielpbarronthat's 900%19:59
mircea_popescudanielpbarron yes it is for bv, but you get more molluscs that way and so you can make more us, so it divides on a wider basis.20:00
danielpbarronjust saying, i need the molluscs for my own purposes and that's apparently what i'd have to pay if i didn't have my own20:00
mircea_popescuyeah.20:00
mircea_popescudiana_coman what's the maximal qty of us you could use up ?20:00
diana_coman420:01
mircea_popescuwhart's that make, 4 lapidary wheels ? not need any for mining remarkables or anything of the sort ?20:01
diana_comanwell, it doesn't look like I get to mine any remarkables, so no20:02
diana_comanand yes, 4 wheels20:02
diana_comanthing is: by the looks of it, it probably makes most sense to get out of lapidary and focus on resources20:02
diana_comanbut then it makes sense to get the bloody lj too20:02
diana_comanand nobody is selling that20:02
mircea_popescuok, how about this deal : you provide the needed cheese for all 4 (be like 12 i think ?), i will give you the 4 us free, and you give me 1 table made and keep 3.20:03
mircea_popescuactually, better deal : you give me the needed cheese, and 4 wheel bps + 4 bubbles, and i will make 4 wheels and give you 3, free of charge.20:03
mircea_popescuwe end up with higher q that way.20:03
diana_comanso like 3 wheels cost me 4 bps that nobody ever got + 4 bubbles that I paid like 45mn on + 12 cheezez that take 36 molluscs or so20:04
mircea_popescuwell how you gonna get them made ?20:05
mircea_popescuand no, iirc 12 cheez = 12 molluscs.20:05
diana_coman1 cheez takes 5 mollusc20:06
diana_comanso it's worse!20:06
mircea_popescuo wow. and it's 3 cheese to the us ?!20:06
diana_comanand 1 st20:06
diana_comanhttp://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/Mollusc-Cheese.html20:06
mircea_popescuwell what do you want! not like i came up wiuth the recipe!20:06
mircea_popescuo... wait.20:06
mircea_popescuNOT LIKE I CAME UP WITH THE RECIPE RIGHT NOW!20:06
diana_coman1 us takes 2 so20:06
mircea_popescuwasn't it 3 ?20:06
diana_coman3 yes20:07
diana_comansilly finger20:07
mircea_popescu3 * 5 = 15 mollusc so 60 total ?20:07
diana_comantell you what, I am really fine farming there20:07
diana_comanno need to go nuts here20:07
diana_comanwill sell 2 bps if that's what you want20:07
mircea_popescufor how much ?20:07
diana_comanbut then for 1 scone + 1mn, how is that?20:08
mircea_popescuglurgh20:08
* danielpbarron also has a spare scone20:09
mircea_popescuok, how about this : you give me the needed cheese for 4 us, 4 wheel bps + 4 bubbles ; i make and give you the 4 wheels, along with 200 ampoule recipes and the materials needed, and you pass me along all the ampoules you produce.20:10
diana_comanI thought you didn't sell that one danielpbarron ! I ASKED!20:10
danielpbarronwell i didn't want to trade it for a hammer20:10
diana_comanwhat do you want for it danielpbarron ?20:10
diana_comanwhat does pass me along mean mircea_popescu ? like in give for free?20:11
danielpbarroni'd kinda rather mp keep his and we just keep enjoying the exclusivity20:11
mircea_popescudiana_coman yeah.20:11
mircea_popescudanielpbarron but how am i going to make bps!20:11
diana_comanwell so then you two enjoy your exclusivity, what can I say20:11
diana_comanI am off farming20:11
diana_comansee your exclusivities later or something20:11
mircea_popescudiana_coman speaking of farming... leather ? berries ?20:11
diana_comanI should have about 2 stacks of berries but thought you wanted like 10 or something; still working on the leather mainly because lost time to get some tools going too as I will certainly be out of tools otherwise quite soon20:12
mircea_popescusince i'm here doing nothing, might as well drop them on me20:14
danielpbarronso are you gonna want not-low quality petrified tinkerer stuff?20:14
danielpbarroni gave nidhogg some stuff to do but maybe i wanna do the rest myself if his low quality stuff isn't gonna be needed for a while20:15
mircea_popescuatm the only numina i know how to use are bouq20:15
diana_comanmircea_popescu, so you're going to get any high q wm soon then?20:17
diana_comanor md for that matter20:17
diana_coman?20:17
mircea_popescudiana_coman well yeah, i have a pile of cs lined up but atm caught in this other wonder. but should be coming.20:17
danielpbarronheh i can get >100 q md pretty easy20:17
diana_comandanielpbarron, that I can get too20:18
diana_comanit's more like 150q I am after20:18
mircea_popescuthinking about it - since he has lj anyway, i guess i can't say no for your scone + 1mn deal for 2 bps. so you're on, bring 'em over.20:18
diana_comanyay, bps unlocked20:18
mircea_popescunot yet, we still need the ink done.20:18
diana_comanwhat does that need?20:18
mircea_popescuwell danielpbarron has the bps.20:19
diana_comanoh20:19
diana_comanlol20:19
mircea_popesculol20:19
danielpbarronsupply me with amps and i'll make em20:19
mircea_popescuachievement unlocked : Start Over!20:19
diana_comanI was honestly wondering why is that scone so terribly precious to you seeing how you don't have exclusivity on it anyway + no time to go and lj20:19
mircea_popescudanielpbarron that's all they take ?20:19
danielpbarronthey take other things that aren't so rare20:19
danielpbarronbeans and something else20:20
danielpbarroni don't recall20:20
mircea_popescumk, and if i give you 200 amps how much for 200 inks ?20:20
mircea_popescudiana_coman say when you've dug it out of storage20:20
diana_coman2 wheel bps coming20:21
mircea_popescudarn 1 sec sorry.20:21
mircea_popescunow20:22
diana_comangood luck!20:22
mircea_popescucheers.20:22
mircea_popescushockingly i had the so already made for mining my 2nd grass20:23
mircea_popescuit'll have to wqait20:23
mircea_popescuhmmm... anyone want the job to make me the 2 us ? i got high q ingredients but not high enough for me20:25
diana_comanmircea_popescu, as I said earlier, I can make them but I don't have the bps20:25
mircea_popescui do.20:25
diana_comanso what terms?20:25
mircea_popescuhmmm20:26
diana_comanoh and: 9999 collected library dusts 104q 160k going once20:26
danielpbarronmircea_popescu> mk, and if i give you 200 amps how much for 200 inks ? << 20mn20:26
mircea_popescudiana_coman you give me the difference in numina bv ?20:27
mircea_popescudanielpbarron you realise my amps will be higher q than your inks!20:28
diana_comanhow do you calc that diff? any req for numina q?20:28
mircea_popescudiana_coman if i give you q200 and you give me q110 diff = 90% bv20:28
mircea_popescuand no req.20:28
mircea_popescudiana_coman you getting the wwb/wpl out of box ?20:29
diana_comanoh, geez, missed that20:30
diana_comanlet me get the numina too anyway, since hanbot is not around; I'll have more laters anyway20:30
diana_comanso the 9999 library dusts sold at 160k20:30
BirdmanI have a bunchuh stacks of library dusts if they are wanted20:31
BirdmanThink Q5320:31
mircea_popescutruth is nobody knows yet Birdman20:31
Birdmanah, thought you knew somethin to do with them20:32
mircea_popescumostly buying defensively.20:32
diana_comanon the us: you give me bp+so and I give you the resulting us + numina in total base value; right mircea_popescu ?20:32
mircea_popescudiana_coman not just so, everything, i got it all here. q 200 cc etc.20:32
diana_comanoh, good, will do then20:32
mircea_popescuk hit me with the groceries when ready and we settle it all out.20:33
diana_comanlet me fish out now: dusts, wwb, wpl20:33
diana_comanwas there anything else?20:33
mircea_popescunubile slaves and assorted spices.20:33
diana_comantoata lumea are morcoooovi20:33
mircea_popescuo wait that's not in game yet.20:33
mircea_popescuus bp q 93 => 2 * 29034*.93 = 54003.24 bv + 14 * 1.96 * 3780 + 6 * 1.49 * 87556 + 36 * 2.85 * 58 + 6 * 2.87 * 59 = 947443.86 total bv here.20:38
mircea_popescuanyone have high q rr btw ?20:49
diana_coman1466rr 190q mircea_popescu20:49
Birdmananyone selling shredding instructions?20:50
diana_comanand another ~4k at ~18520:50
mircea_popescui'll take both20:51
diana_comankk, fishing that out too20:51
mircea_popescui might Birdman, what do you pay ?20:51
Birdmanadjusted bv20:52
mircea_popescu...20:52
Birdmanq7 and q100 are the same to me20:52
mircea_popescuic.20:53
Birdmandoesnt add to my craft, far as i know20:53
Birdmanjurov: re downloading now so will keep you posted on foxybot20:54
diana_comanfuck, messed it up; so mircea_popescu rr 4236 188q, 1157 181q sigh20:54
mircea_popescuso lessee. 160k + 5393 * 1.86 * 67 *1.25 + 3854 * 1.38 * 152 * 1.25 + (17715 + 2693) * 1.4 * 141 * 1.25 = 7046287.37520:56
mircea_popescunot bad!20:57
diana_comansounds right20:57
mircea_popescuok and you're held for 947443 bv.20:57
diana_comanyes, got that20:58
mircea_popescuam i getting 'em today ?20:58
diana_comanmhm, how long does it take?20:58
diana_comanhalf hour?20:58
mircea_popescubnout an hour i think20:58
diana_comanugh20:58
diana_comanI can't equip?20:58
diana_comanus bps is broken20:59
diana_comanmircea_popescu, ^20:59
mircea_popescuuhm20:59
mircea_popesculooking into this.20:59
diana_comanit doesn't fit in that slot it says20:59
mircea_popescua, gotta equip it singles.21:00
diana_comanomg, 1 fits, but 2 don't21:00
mircea_popescuaha.21:00
diana_comanheh, ok, can work with that, though I don't get it why21:00
mircea_popescui dunno, too big to fit in head ?21:00
diana_comanin foxy's head at least21:01
diana_comananyway, 1 today for sure, don't know about the 2nd one, quite possibly21:01
Birdmansmall capacity, is my guess..21:01
Birdman:D21:01
diana_comanprolly foxy being the idiot she is or something21:02
Birdmanfull screen now, nice touch! hope foxybot works or i gotta re do all my macros :p21:08
mircea_popescualt-enter makes it full screen anyway21:11
Birdmanwell it seems all graphically fucked up now, the login page21:15
Birdmanmost things are cut off horizontally21:15
Birdmanis there a tutorial for foxybot somewhere?21:17
jurovBirdman: http://www.dianacoman.com/foxybots-eulora/21:21
Birdmanthanks21:21
mircea_popescui plucked so much nosehair...21:23
diana_comanalso Birdman  just type /bot craft for instance21:23
diana_comanor /bot explore21:23
diana_comanand it will output in the window some help21:23
jurovwait, looks like I have shipped my 3200x1800 windows configuration and you ended up with overly big window?21:23
Birdmanmircea_popescu making your own bct?21:23
mircea_popescunah, csw.21:23
Birdmanjurov yes i think so21:23
jurovBirdman: edit C:\eulora\eulorav0.1.1\euclient.cfg21:24
diana_comanmircea_popescu, would you mind showing me at some point the new bps so that they get added to the cookbook? it's enough to show them to foxy in game really as the bot will just read them and spit them out perfect for integration21:24
mircea_popescuyeah eventually diana_coman21:25
Birdmanthanks21:25
jurovBirdman: there's Video.ScreeWidth/Height in the middle21:25
jurovyou can try FullScreen, too, report if that works21:25
Birdmanalt enter doesnt change anything, though the bot is functioning21:28
DicePowerI think it's time for science!21:33
jurovhuh?21:34
mircea_popesculol21:34
DicePowerTime to experiment :P21:34
diana_comangetting in DicePower ?21:35
DicePowerHaving trouble with the character name lol21:35
DicePowerSays it must contain more than two characters and only alphab (then the message is cut off)21:35
diana_comanoh, consulting the oracle? numerology?21:35
mircea_popescudon't make shitty names.21:36
DicePowerMy name fit the criteria though.21:36
DicePowerSo once you create a character, can you delete it and create a new one with the same name, or is that name taken for good?21:38
mircea_popescui don't think anyone has yet deleted a character.21:38
DicePowerOh, there is no way to do so?21:38
DicePowerOr just no one has hit the button yet?21:39
jurovno, no one messed up so badly yet21:39
DicePowerHehe21:39
Birdmanim not gonna be the first i can tell you that much21:39
DicePowerMy plan is to create a character, record my Strength in an Excel sheet, delete, recreate, record, etc.21:40
DicePowerTo find the range of possible values for Strength.21:40
jurovyiu have your strength listed anywhere?21:41
mircea_popescuhow would you record your strenght ?21:41
DicePowerI've been told that Strength is the only inherent stat value that's still visible?21:41
Birdman"explore not finished and not yet timedout, will wait"21:41
Birdmanno but you can see your capacity for weight dicepower21:42
DicePowerAhh okay21:42
DicePowerThat must be it21:42
mircea_popescuyeah you can see your weight capacity.21:42
mircea_popescutwo of them actually.21:42
mircea_popescubulk and weight21:42
DicePowerEach of them vary character to character?21:42
Birdmanyes21:42
mircea_popescumyeah.21:42
DicePowerOkay21:42
DicePowerThat seems like the best place to start science then :)21:42
Birdmanand from what i saw i dont think the total points is even across the board21:42
BirdmanCould be remembering wrong though21:43
diana_comanDicePower, you won't see the stats21:43
mircea_popescuseems he's dedicated to byob.21:44
DicePowerBirdman:  You mean, you think each stat value is assigned a random number entirely independently of the values assigned to the other stats, rather than say, each character starting with 100 stat points which are distributed to stat values in a random fashion?21:44
mircea_popescucurious what'll come of this.21:44
* diana_coman is curious too 21:44
Birdmandim pretty certain the total points isn't equal throughout characters21:44
mircea_popescuDicePower i can assure you it's more complicated than that.21:44
diana_comanand even willing to help DicePower with some data probably21:44
Birdmanand past that i cant say21:44
DicePowerSweet :)21:45
DicePowerThanks for the dedication to science, hehe.21:45
mircea_popescuDicePower you really should read the logs, there's some epic stuff21:45
mircea_popescumaybe diana_coman or danielpbarron or someone links the juicier bits21:45
diana_comanDicePower, have you got around to read any of foxy's diary posts ?21:45
DicePowerThat sounds like a wise idea21:45
DicePowerI haven't21:45
mircea_popescuah yes, and foxy's diary is pretty good21:45
Birdmandanielpbarron's strength was his highest and it was much higher than my highest which was intelligence, though all my stats were almost level with each other21:46
Birdmanwhile i saw dans fluxuating21:46
diana_comanhttp://www.dianacoman.com/2015/10/22/the-unbearably-unknown-value-of-things-in-eulora/ <- DicePower this one maybe as a starter at least21:46
diana_comanbut do come in and walk around too , lol21:46
DicePowerhehe, ty for the link21:46
mircea_popescuor you know, stuff like http://trilema.com/2015/the-trade-hour/21:47
lobbesbotTitle: The trade hour on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at trilema.com)21:47
mircea_popescuactually the whole s/mg category.21:47
diana_comanit has some links there for further reading, that's why I chose that one21:47
diana_comanand yes, including at least 2 articles in the s.mg cat on trilema as a matter of fact + some link to the logs21:48
diana_comanha ha, one IS the trade hour precisely mircea_popescu21:48
DicePowerthen again, major headaches and quite-problems are truly the fabric of Euloran reality anyway. XD21:48
mircea_popescu:p21:48
diana_comanthat's all right DicePower , solving them is the best thing ever :D21:49
mircea_popescuhas any been solved yet ?21:49
DicePowerThought you might be referring to the registration system ;)21:49
DicePowerj/k21:49
diana_comanahahahah21:49
mircea_popesculol21:49
diana_comanmircea_popescu> has any been solved yet ? <- depends on your choice /def of "problem"21:49
Birdmandiana_coman: " By default, the timeout is 15 minutes, allowing amply time for your character to explore automatically even with a chetty stick. " so is this why im getting the "explore not finished and not yet timedout, will wait" message while bare handing? it seems to happen after a few explores but not the same amount21:50
diana_comanif you have some lag, the message won't come through in the usual time so the bot will wait again seeing how it doesn't timeout either21:50
diana_coman(it will keep waiting until 15 minutes passed and then it will just move on)21:51
diana_comanobv, if the message comes through in between, it will build etc21:51
Birdmanah so this is due to lag then?21:51
diana_comanor maybe your exploring taking longer than the value set21:51
diana_comanthe bot checks every x milliseconds to see if explore is finished21:52
diana_comanif yes, then build or move etc21:52
Birdmanhm let me pay closer attention to see whats triggering it21:52
diana_comanwhat did you start it with?21:52
danielpbarronBirdman, type this : /bot explore 10000 line 30 1 7 5000 750021:52
danielpbarroni use 4750 instead of 5000 but idk how long yours takes21:52
danielpbarronyou can adjust accordingly21:52
Birdmani started it with just /bot explore 1000021:52
Birdmanmeaning the # of times for it to explore21:53
diana_comanaha, so it took the default value for the checking21:53
danielpbarronyou should specify the other stuff21:53
Birdmanso where do i alter the defaults?21:53
diana_comanwhich is probably less that what your character takes to explore21:53
danielpbarronin the source code21:53
diana_comanlolz Birdman why would you alter the defaults really?21:53
diana_comanset them there as danielpbarron said21:53
Birdmani didnt know you could set them21:53
diana_comanuhm, did you run /bot explore21:54
Birdmansoo lemme read up smore21:54
Birdmanyes21:54
danielpbarronjust type what i told you21:54
danielpbarronand go from there21:54
danielpbarron30 is the number of explroes before it reverses direction21:54
danielpbarronchange to whatever you want21:54
danielpbarron7500 is the longest it will wait after something goes screwy21:55
Birdmanwhat does each space represent21:55
danielpbarron7500 = 7.5 seconds21:55
Birdmani get it, miliseconds, what does each space represent21:55
danielpbarronspace?21:55
Birdman./explore [#oftimes] then the rest idk21:56
danielpbarronwtf, i jsut had 1000 cft dissapear21:57
diana_comano.o21:57
danielpbarroni took them out of storage, i see that in my chat box21:57
danielpbarronand then i started the bot, it found a small right off the bat, and they were gone21:58
diana_comanBirdman, /bot explore 10000 line 30 1 7 5000 750 -> do 10000 explores in a line going 30 steps forward then 30 back and repeat, leaving keys in the claim when done21:58
diana_comanusing 7 threads to build21:58
diana_comanwaiting 5 seconds to check if explore done/claim built21:58
danielpbarronomg21:58
danielpbarronmy pickaxes are gone too21:58
danielpbarronwtf21:58
diana_comandanielpbarron, you sure don't have some in some table21:59
diana_comanand they went there?21:59
diana_comanstacked?21:59
danielpbarroni had 38 pickaxes and 37 are gone21:59
danielpbarronnot in my table21:59
diana_comanso wait, you got out of storage 1k cft and 38 pickaxes?22:00
diana_comanand you had the message in the window + you had them in inv22:00
danielpbarroni had just crafted the pickaxes22:00
diana_comanstarted exploring, got 1 small and then ...no cft?22:00
danielpbarronyeah then the cft and pickaxes were gone22:01
diana_comanthe bot failed to build for lack of cft?22:01
danielpbarronreplaced by the key and ennumeration22:01
diana_comandid the bot build?22:01
danielpbarronyeah then it thought not threads so it locked and moved on22:01
danielpbarronno22:01
danielpbarronno build22:01
diana_comanoh22:01
danielpbarroni think the key and ennumeration overlapped the threads and pickaxes22:01
diana_comanit sounds something like that, but not sure how would that happen22:02
DicePowerInteresting observation for the esoteric records:  The unused attribute buttons (Face, Hairstyle, etc.) function as checkboxes rather than toggling buttons in that they can either be pressed or depressed.  Each button's status is saves when you click the Back button to return to the main menu, and then reenter character creation.22:02
DicePowerThe other information doesn't seem to be saved.22:02
danielpbarronftr these were quality 120 threads, and 10087 pickaxes i think22:02
diana_comanchecked back in storage if they are still there?22:03
danielpbarronthe pickaxes were never in storage22:03
Birdmanmircea_popescu what are you chargin on those shredding instructions? i have the bot so i figure i need now more than ever22:04
diana_comanI meant whether either in inv or in storage22:04
diana_comanas sometimes hidden22:04
diana_comanoh congrats Birdman on having the bot running22:04
BirdmanCongrats to jurov, not me22:05
diana_comanheh, it's well done to jurov22:05
BirdmanSuppose you're right22:05
fghjI wonder what will happen when my inventory is full and loot has no free slots to take22:10
jurovit ends up on your hands22:11
BirdmanBACKS UP INTO YOUR HANDS22:11
danielpbarronfghj, is it looting correctly for you?22:11
Birdmanahem , same will happen with keys22:11
danielpbarronmy stuff is defo gone22:12
fghjyeah looks ok22:12
danielpbarroni suspect it has to do with whatever brought the server down earlier22:12
Birdmandiana_coman what does the bot do if i become over weight while gathering and building?22:14
diana_comanit stops22:14
Birdmandanielpbarron what are you asking for shredding instructions?22:18
danielpbarronidk22:23
danielpbarronmaybe if i log out my stuff'll show up22:24
danielpbarronugh so annoying22:24
Birdmanjurov recommended values to fix the size?22:24
danielpbarronoh ffs22:25
danielpbarronsomeone is very wrong here22:25
danielpbarroni recommend server shut down22:25
danielpbarronnow i have 21 pickaxes quality 10087 and nohting else in my inventory22:26
danielpbarronso i lost my very old craft table, and my 1000 bits22:26
danielpbarronquality 55 on the bits ftr22:26
danielpbarronmircea_popescu, ^22:27
diana_comando you have the cft in storage now danielpbarron ?22:27
danielpbarroni can't remember exactly how many i had22:27
danielpbarronit shoudln't matter, the pickaxes were never in storage22:27
danielpbarronand why 21 now?22:27
danielpbarronthe nubmer doesn't even make sense22:28
danielpbarrondid it freeze?22:28
diana_comanI don't know, it seems to work fine for me really22:28
danielpbarronthere it goes22:28
diana_comanoh22:28
danielpbarronmaybe it was the location where i tried to gather, behind the weird teleporty door to the graveyard22:29
danielpbarronright before it went down, i couldn't walk through the small claim that i no longer have the key to22:29
danielpbarronit would bump my character to the side as i tried to move thruogh it22:29
diana_comandanielpbarron wasn't that a place which we knew already it was a bit fucked up as someone else got stuck around there?22:30
danielpbarroni wasn't in the graveyard though22:30
danielpbarroni was behind the houses, just trying to get a few spicy moss to get mining past the first easy ranks22:30
diana_comanyes, but lol, all that area is nice easy moss, don't need to bump into the graveyard thing - it seems to be a bit shaky for sure22:31
danielpbarroni didn't realize that was the problem22:31
danielpbarroni thought someone crashed it ~in~ the graveyard22:31
diana_comanwell, now will wait, I really hope the US I just built is still there22:31
danielpbarronmaybe DicePower caused it, with deleting a character22:32
DicePowerHehe, I didn't quite get to that point, it asks for your password to delete, and I was still typing it in.22:32
danielpbarroni didn't even explore when it crashed, i just walked over there to see if my craft table was put down22:32
danielpbarronand then when i right clicked the small claim, no options appeared22:33
diana_comanhm, weird22:33
diana_comanmaybe it was something else entirely22:34
DicePowerFYI, for my first character, my "Weight" was 462.69, and my "Capacity" was 301.22:34
DicePower*is I should say22:34
DicePowerSince haven't deleted yet22:34
DicePowerI will keep everyone updated on the ranges when anything interesting happens.22:34
BirdmanNotice how we're all exactly alike? Welcome to the cult DicePower22:35
diana_comanoh, are you trying to figure out like min and max on those DicePower or what?22:35
DicePowerBirdman:  Hehe, how are you all alike, you mean appearance wise?  :P22:35
BirdmanYes meant appearance lol22:35
DicePowerdiana_coman:  Yes!22:35
DicePowerI think determining min and mix for the values that ARE shown is a good first step.22:36
diana_comanhm, trouble is : when do you consider you got those values DicePower ?22:36
diana_comanif you do 10000 runs and the lowest you saw is 50, does that make it lowest possible?22:36
DicePowerWhen I get quite a few X's in my data set but on X - 1's?22:36
DicePowerYou can't expect 100% certainty doing this type of thing of course.22:37
DicePowerBut I'm hoping it becomes pretty obvious.22:37
diana_comanit's not really certainty of min/max to expect, but at least certainty of what exactly you plan to do, lol22:37
DicePowerThe other thing that might be a major clue is the correlation between the two values.22:37
DicePowerI think it will be very helpful in answering the question, "does 1 value tend to go up when the other goes down?"22:38
diana_comantrue, fwiw I can tell you from earlier days that I saw 10+ stats iirc22:38
DicePowerI'm hoping someone will be able to supply a screenshot of their stat list.22:39
diana_comanI'm sure at least someone is able to - not sure if anyone is willing to22:39
DicePowerWouldn't be able to determine ranges from it, but at least see what stats we're working with.22:40
diana_comanoh, I can tell you from memory that there are at least strength, endurance, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity22:40
diana_comanconstitution too I think22:41
DicePowerNice, and Weight and Capacity are two more?22:41
diana_comanuhm, no22:41
diana_comanweight and capacity are the result of some combination of some of the stats22:41
diana_comanisn't that clear as mud, lol22:41
DicePowerOhh got it22:41
DicePowerI understand the concept22:41
DicePowerIt's used in Entropia Universe for attributes22:41
DicePowerand professions22:42
diana_comanwell , or so I figured it out and I really don't think I saw weight and capacity as stats in the window as such, lol22:42
DicePowercool22:42
DicePowerSo that might mean it's harder to infer anything from a correlation between the two.22:42
DicePowerBut might still learn something from a correlation or lack there of.22:42
diana_comanyep, this is why I was asking at first what it is exactly you are trying to do22:42
DicePowerRight now I'm just trying to get a foot in the door of the stat system.22:43
DicePowerNot sure exactly where it will lead.22:43
DicePowerOr how deep we can go with it.22:43
DicePowermircea_popescu has said that the system is very complex, so probably won't be able to discover it in its entirety.22:44
mircea_popescugah22:45
DicePowerBut might be able to answer the question, "is it better to have high Weight/Capacity, or low" at least.22:45
mircea_popescuit's certainlty better to have it high22:45
mircea_popescuyou can carfy more22:45
DicePowerUnless that is correlated with lower stat values elsewhere, on average, right?22:46
DicePower...or like22:46
DicePowerThe stat values that are used to calculate Weight/Capacity are correlated with lower other stat values.22:46
BirdmanAs i was saying i dont think having high of one correlates to low others22:46
Birdmanall mine were very near each other iirc22:46
Birdmanyou could very well have crazy high of all22:47
mircea_popescuno lunch is free.22:47
DicePowerHmmmm22:47
Birdmanor really low, i dont think having one high means you're guaranteed lower results in others22:47
Birdmaniirc dan had more overall than me, and had stats higher than mine22:48
DicePower"No lunch is free"  Was that in response to me, or to the "could have all stats crazy high with no drawback" thing?22:49
diana_comanDicePower, for some taste of stuff: http://trilema.com/2015/euloraleaks/22:49
lobbesbotTitle: Euloraleaks on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at trilema.com)22:49
DicePowerty22:49
DicePowerSo the weight and capacity are both under 100 in that pic22:50
diana_comanthe pic might be very very old22:51
diana_comanbut I meant about the approach re complexity of the game22:51
diana_comanread the text22:51
DicePowerI read it22:52
DicePowerI warn you, if you're the obsesive-compulsive explorer type, stay away.22:52
DicePowerGuess I'm uninstalling :)22:52
DicePowerlol22:52
mircea_popescudiana_coman> or maybe your exploring taking longer than the value set  <<< all these problems were related to a db server issue we've been having all day.22:54
mircea_popescuHOPEFULLY it is finally shot in the head.22:54
mircea_popescuapologies yet again for all inconvenience.22:54
mircea_popescuserver should go back up momentarily.22:55
mircea_popescuin unrelated news, methinks DicePower will have a lot of fun with eulora lol22:59
DicePower:D22:59
DicePowerSweet22:59
DicePowerI think getting past the first part with the stats will be the roughest part for me.23:00
DicePowerThen I'll relax a bit lol23:00
mircea_popescuftr there were 10+ stats showing back in the day.23:00
mircea_popescuoh diana already said that23:00
DicePowerAnd they're still in the game, just not publicly displayed, from what I've been informed.23:01
mircea_popescuDicePower> Unless that is correlated with lower stat values elsewhere, on average, right? <<< well that's a given.23:01
mircea_popescu"is it better to be taller or shorter ?" "taller, the chicks dig you more" "unless there's lasers cutting heads above a certain height" "doh"23:02
DicePowerHehe23:02
mircea_popescuso danielpbarron what are you short ? 10 pickaxes q 10k was it ?23:02
danielpbarronlemme see when i get back23:03
DicePowerAre you saying that you find it silly to think that low values in one stat are compensated, on average at least, but higher values in another stat?23:03
DicePowerI was initially going off of this convo http://hastebin.com/zomafiqubi.xml    Birdman seems to disagree on the matter.23:04
lobbesbotTitle: hastebin (at hastebin.com)23:04
DicePowerSo on the one hand, you would want to aim for a LOW Weight/Capacity23:04
BirdmanFeb 13 22:03:20 <danielpbarron> maybe aim for a ~low~ number as that means you have less strength and more of some stat << keyword is maybe23:05
danielpbarroni should have in total : 1k q55 bits, 1k q120 threads, 1 q195 craft table made by Mircea, 38 q10087 pickaxes (one was used 2 times so it's more like 9k something)23:05
DicePowerYeah, I'm trying to figure out the actual :)23:05
Birdmanand to quote myself <Birdman>iirc dan had more overall than me, and had stats higher than mine23:05
Birdmanhigher stats and more overall points, though mine were very evenly distribute23:05
diana_comanDicePower, I think the point is exactly that there is no set/fixed/objective "best"23:06
danielpbarroni had low inteligence and other smart sounding stuff23:06
diana_comanthat's why it's more about finding the best way to play your configuration rather than trying to figure out what is the best configuration to play the game since there prolly isn't one23:06
danielpbarronmy character is the dumb strong one it seems23:06
mircea_popescu^ what diana said.23:07
diana_comanfoxy also has low intelligence fwiw23:07
mircea_popescuthere is quite certainly no "optimal character"23:07
DicePowerWell, isn't aren't stats of 2/2/2/2/2/2/2 strictly better than 2/2/2/2/2/2/1?23:07
mircea_popescuit is not possible for this comparison to appear in game.23:07
mircea_popescudiana_coman you're gettin ga bundle back.23:08
mircea_popescuwhat q were they, 163 ?23:08
DicePowerYou mean that you cannot reduce one number without increasing another, and vice versa?23:08
diana_comanhm, I think it was lower than that, but not sure the number exactly :(23:08
DicePowerOr just that 2 is too low a number to appear?23:08
diana_comanI guess I can start the next one and see though23:08
mircea_popescuDicePower i mean that a/a/a/a vs a/a/a/a+1 is not mathematically possible.23:08
mircea_popescudiana_coman best idea.23:09
diana_comanyeah, 153q23:09
DicePowerOkay, that's very interesting23:09
danielpbarronit's probably too annoying to restore a claim key + ennum so you could just pretend like i never used any of the pickaxes and they are all 1008723:10
diana_comanI need the bp back too since really I had the finished item and everything23:10
mircea_popescudiana_coman k.23:10
mircea_popescudanielpbarron how many axes you got left ?23:10
danielpbarronis it back up?23:10
mircea_popescuyup23:10
mircea_popescuDicePower you gonna be fucking around deleting this char ? or gonna play witi t ?23:10
diana_comancome in DicePower, the water is great23:11
DicePowermircea_popescu:  I find it very interesting that the system can't arbitrarily increase one stat, while at the same time you say it is "certainly better" to have higher Weight/Capacity.23:11
DicePowerThis is my second character, I will be deleting it many times I think :P23:11
mircea_popescuDicePower well obviously, capacity is a good.23:11
danielpbarroni have 21 pickaxes right now (and nothing else)23:11
mircea_popescuaite. once you're done with that say and i'll giove you some starter items.23:11
DicePowerBy the way for everyone's benefit, you can delete characters and recreate a new one with the same name.23:11
DicePowerSweet, thanks :)23:12
mircea_popescudanielpbarron ima give you 1 coin in compensation because i'm too lazy to actually fix the litany of items.23:12
danielpbarronoo, got my craft table, was still in town23:12
mircea_popescuyea23:12
danielpbarronk23:12
danielpbarronthat table is priceless!23:12
diana_coman1 coin aka 1 btc? o.o23:14
mircea_popescunah.23:14
danielpbarronthanks23:15
danielpbarronso is it safe for me to go exploring again?23:15
mircea_popescutrade diana_coman23:15
danielpbarroni'm afraid to touch anything now23:15
mircea_popescudanielpbarron i wqould think so.23:15
diana_comanoh well, will just interrupt it I guess23:15
mircea_popescunah23:15
mircea_popescudoesn't work during ?23:15
diana_comandoesn't seem to23:15
mircea_popescuoddball.23:15
mircea_popescui trade whiole crafting all the time23:15
diana_comanI clicked accept and then it said you can't trade while etc23:15
diana_comanwhile working23:16
mircea_popescuweird lol.23:16
diana_comannope, again23:16
mircea_popescuthis may be the one craft we did right lol.23:16
mircea_popescuamnyway, it';s here when you're done.23:16
diana_comando you trade while actually working on something or between starting 2 items?23:16
mircea_popescuwhile.23:16
diana_comanweird23:16
DicePowerEsoteric Tip #2:  If you delete your character and recreate one, the game will remember if your Inventory window (and probably other windows) was open or not.23:19
DicePowerThe first 5 accounts have been created.  The results at this point are Weight ranges from 352.77 to 586.97 and Capacity ranges from 282 to 592.23:23
DicePowerTime to do 99999995 more trials.23:23
diana_comanahaha, you're getting into the spirit there DicePower with the number of trials23:24
danielpbarronhuh, my capacity is lower than your lowest and my weight is higher than your highest23:24
DicePowerLOL23:24
DicePowerNice23:24
mircea_popescuDicePower do you know how to do proper variance calculations etc ?23:24
DicePowerI've done it before, pretty much forgotten.  I'm no expert at it.23:25
mircea_popescuthere's an actual method to evaluate your marginal confidence gain per assay23:25
DicePowerWould have to look it up again.23:25
mircea_popescuhey, eulora is unforgiving on the math. you'll have to.23:25
mircea_popescumany a player had to clean the cobwebs off r23:26
DicePowerSince botting is allowed in this game, it might be a good idea to automate this cycle to collect more data.23:26
DicePowerNot sure if it's worth the time though.23:26
mircea_popescuprolly not, but every man decides for himself.23:26
DicePowerSince this is just one step in a larger project23:26
mircea_popescuthere's much better things to be measuring tho.23:27
DicePoweraye23:27
diana_comanDicePower, seeing how you are after data, you might enjoy http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/12/20/foxys-dismal-scribblings-on-euloran-exploration-data-or-truly-horrible-numbers/23:30
DicePowerty23:30
diana_comanfoxy is not exactly the very sunny type, but the numbers are there, lol23:31
* mircea_popescu reads old articles... hey diana_coman remember when we were dealing in 100s of items ? :D23:33
diana_comanheh, for some reason I can't shake out of my head the 50-samovars run23:34
Birdmanive wondered why most things in game are just by nature. Worn, dismal, grotesque, worthless, with discriptions matching23:34
Birdmanare just shoddy* by nature23:34
mircea_popescugotta start somewhere.23:34
Birdmanright, maybe when we leave the island or whatever things suck less23:35
diana_comanin the optimistic interpretation: so that they can get better, go up, become something23:35
mircea_popescu^23:35
mircea_popescuin other lolz : 1 btc = 100mn ECu or at the same time ~8914400 VND. so it's like 10 ECu to the VND.23:46
Birdmanwhat is vnd?23:46
mircea_popescuvietnamese currency23:46
mircea_popescuaptly called the dong.23:46
Birdmani talked to a guy, sort of professional online poker played23:46
Birdmantold me he spent the better part of his young adult life playing online poker and with the relatively small amounts he'd win, just live like a king banging chicks over there23:47
mircea_popescuwhat's the third world for.23:48
Birdmanmhm23:48
Birdmanthat and factories23:48
DicePowerGot a 766.28 Weight and 687 Capacity character.  New high for each.23:49
DicePowerOnly 12 trials deep though23:49
DicePowerI'm sure it gets higher.23:49
BirdmanWhich is actually my argument against anyone saying goods should be bought locally. Have they seen detroit? Any city really. Urban sprawl and all that23:50
mircea_popescumake sure you put your results in the wiki23:50
DicePowerSure, I'm saving them all in a spreadsheet, will upload them all once I figure out what going on with it :)23:50
DicePowerDo any of the 10+ stats have an impact on any activity that you can do for free?23:52
DicePowerIn other words, should I be testing something else for each character, like a range of damage taken or something?23:52
Birdmanthere's not much to go on right now, but there are theories one could be better at tinkering or gathering than another based on these stats,23:53
jurovonly thing you can reasonably test for free is damage and results from barehand mining23:53
jurov(/explore command)23:53
DicePowerokie23:54
* mircea_popescu can't recall if that crashes the server or not.23:54
jurovbarehand mining?23:54
mircea_popescuwithout skill23:55
jurovo i forgot, must eat skill. so not completely free, scratch that.23:55
mircea_popescuhow would he test results anyway, count tinies ?23:55
jurovhe'd find a way :)23:55
mircea_popesculol23:55

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