#Eulora log for Wednesday, 2016-02-10

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*** Joins: mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem)00:14
*** Parts: DicePower (Elite16065@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yzgycwtamnvrkobn) ("Leaving")00:49
danielpbarrondiana_coman, are your blueprints still for sale? if so I'll take them all for the quoted price :D01:48
*** Joins: Birdman (~birdman@32.212.87.18)02:11
Birdmanhey sorry about that mircea_popescu, can grab the tool kits whenever works for you02:18
Birdmanalso i think these changes are gonna be awesome, so are enumerations still going to be used in supplications? or are those items just not going to exist anymore? seeing as the drafts are now useless02:19
danielpbarronwhat items?02:20
Birdmansupplications02:20
danielpbarroni was under the impression those would continue existing02:21
danielpbarronor rather, are still craftable02:21
Birdmanyeah but the bp used to make them isnt so, was just a thought02:21
danielpbarroni guess there's a new way to make them02:21
Birdmanglad i just bought a bunch of tool kits to use for bp overcraft02:22
*** Joins: nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins)02:22
*** Quits: mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) (Quit: mitch_callahan)02:29
Birdmanwonder where bp q will come into play outside of bouq line02:34
danielpbarronmy hypothesis that blueprint value didn't count in a craft was based on how loot would contaminate the stack in your mind02:39
danielpbarronbut since that is no longer the case..02:39
Birdmanyeah but if that is the case, it'd be adding 1/10 the value of your bundle02:40
Birdmandanielpbarron you have some spare shredding instructions?02:47
danielpbarronwhat is spare02:48
Birdman7202:49
danielpbarronsure02:49
danielpbarronhow does 72 help??02:49
Birdmanpre made bundles, cant loot more, wanna shred them before anything screwy happens in the skill line02:49
Birdmanwhatcha want for them02:50
*** Joins: DicePower (Elite16065@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yzgycwtamnvrkobn)03:06
DicePowerIs there a known fix to the popup window that says, "This program can't be started because openal32.dll is missing"?03:08
DicePowerI moved the Eulora folder to C:/ and I downloaded the MSVS Redistributable 201003:08
danielpbarronjurov, ^03:09
danielpbarronmost of us play on some sort of linux03:09
DicePowerI'm on Windows 703:10
danielpbarronI'm sorry to hear that03:10
DicePowerlol03:10
DicePowerIs the game supported on that OS?03:11
Birdmaniirc i had that same problem, and the fix was just redownloading the compiled version03:11
DicePowerokay, thanks03:11
DicePowerI'll try it03:11
Birdmanare you trying to run it with the .bat?03:13
DicePowertried both03:14
DicePowerThe .bat, and the .exe in the program folder.03:15
DicePowerOr "directory" as the Linux people like to say :P03:15
danielpbarroneven directory is a retarded concept03:15
danielpbarronpathname or something03:15
DicePower"node" >_>03:17
DicePowerIs the program portable, or is there stuff to clear out when reinstalling in AppData/Program Files/etc?03:18
Birdmanwhile shredding i get 1lbn appear in the screens, when i add it to inventory it adds the correct 103 lbn03:20
danielpbarroni've seen that too03:20
danielpbarronwhat does it say when you right click it in the screens?03:21
Birdmansays its 103 of em03:21
danielpbarronjust a visual glitch03:21
Birdmanyeah03:21
*** Joins: mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem)03:23
Birdmanan influx of noobs right after bps cant be looted03:24
DicePowerDang, downloaded again, directly to the C: drive this time, problem persists.03:24
DicePowerDo you have to point it to the downloaded MSVS somehow?03:24
danielpbarronis it not possible for you to get a real computer?03:24
DicePowerI have a lot of computers.03:24
Birdmando you have all the cs updated?03:25
DicePowerCS?03:25
Birdmancystal space03:25
danielpbarronok so try eulora on one of your computers03:25
DicePowerI used the Installation Package.03:25
DicePowerNot the masters degree required installation method :D03:26
danielpbarronweren't you asking about making bots? how're you supposed to make a bot if you can't compile code that's alrady known to work?03:27
Birdmanwell i have it and remember it being a seperate thing, but the packages have been updated since03:27
danielpbarronyeah you should get the foxybot one Birdman03:27
Birdmani have it03:28
Birdmangives a widget loading error iirc, so not available on windows yet03:28
DicePowerFoxybot doesn't work at all on Windows?03:29
Birdmanno03:29
Birdmanbut i can recommend a cool macro ^_^03:29
* danielpbarron barfs03:29
DicePowerYa know03:30
DicePowerWindows is a pretty popular OS :D03:30
DicePowerI'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who want to play games on it03:30
Birdmanhow did mp put it? 'if you want something to be mass adopted, it has to be retarded'03:30
Birdmansomethin like that03:30
Birdmanwell the fact that you need to register a gpg key is detterant enough, if you are willing and able to do that, your os is probably irrelevant03:31
Birdmanand though we may all be havin a blast here on eulora its still really young, bugs will be worked out in due time03:31
DicePowerSo is it okay to just ignore the error message you think?03:32
danielpbarroni think there's plans to put it in the app store and on steam and have a command line version03:33
Birdmanwill the game run after the message?03:33
DicePowerYeah, it says, "This program can't be started because openal32.dll is missing" but then the game runs anyhow.03:33
DicePowerI just wondered if the file was available.03:33
Birdmanoh, screw it then i'd say03:33
DicePowerSo I don't run into problems later03:33
danielpbarronbut i don't think there's every any plans to cater to "a lot of people" or to be "pretty popular"03:33
danielpbarronlook at what else is popular among lots of people03:33
Birdmanwell some things you cant knock danielpbarron, cars are pretty sweet03:34
Birdmanknock some things*03:34
DicePowerSo is the Internet.03:35
DicePowerWhich this game requires03:35
DicePowerToo mainstream for me >_>03:35
danielpbarroni don't knock cars per se, but look at what passes for a car these days03:36
BirdmanRight, but those things will probably be out of the grasp of mass adoption eventually, they can just afford it through weird fiat debt cycles03:36
danielpbarronthey aren't sold for the engine or anything car-like, but what gadgets work in it03:36
danielpbarron"has wifi" "onstar" "touchscreens in seat"03:36
danielpbarron"can plug in ifone"03:36
mircea_popescuBirdman that'll have to be next time i auction some.03:37
BirdmanThanks, im in no rush over here03:38
DicePowerHmm, so what all is involved with creating an account?03:38
mircea_popescuDicePower> I have a lot of computers. << jurov does the windows packaging, prolly be able to help you once he comes on03:39
DicePowerahh okay, I'll ask him03:39
DicePowerty03:39
Birdmanyou ask mircea_popescu for an account after registering a key with assbot?03:39
DicePowerDo you create your own email/name/password?03:39
DicePowerOr is it an existing account?03:39
Birdmanno/yes/no03:40
DicePowerThat's very interesting.03:40
DicePowerI take it registration used to be open, but there were problems?03:40
Birdmanhe encrypts the pass for ya03:40
Birdmanno, i think thats just the bar he set to join his game03:40
danielpbarronregistration hasn't changed since the start03:41
DicePowerOh okay, no plans to change it then.03:41
DicePowerJust be a bit odd to not use your own email address.03:41
DicePowerI guess they don't contact you for anything.03:41
danielpbarronemail is also retarded03:41
DicePowerlol03:41
Birdmangpg is the ultimate email03:41
danielpbarronif you need to contact, there is irc03:41
DicePowerGoogle Plus Gadget?03:42
danielpbarronposting gpg-grams to public free txt host service and passing url through irc03:42
DicePowerThat doesn't seam easier than email.03:42
danielpbarronhttp://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/gpg03:42
lobbesbotTitle: gpg [bitcoin assets wiki] (at wiki.bitcoin-assets.com)03:42
Birdmaneasy isnt the idea03:42
Birdmansecurity is03:43
DicePowerWhy not just make a secure email account, like a vfemail?03:43
danielpbarronit actually kinda is easier than email03:43
danielpbarronthere is no such thing as "secure email account"03:43
DicePowervfemail.com03:43
danielpbarronespecially not if you aren't actually hosting it yourself03:43
DicePower.net rather03:43
danielpbarronvfemail.net isn't in the WoT03:43
mircea_popescudanielpbarron> i think there's plans to put it in the app store and on steam and have a command line version << something like that.03:44
mircea_popescuDicePower> Yeah, it says, "This program can't be started because openal32.dll is missing" but then the game runs anyhow. <<  lol the mysteries of windows.03:44
DicePower:)03:44
mircea_popescuanyway, you need a pgp key, which you then register with assbot.03:45
DicePowerIs that literally its name? lol03:45
mircea_popescuyeah.03:45
Birdmanlol stands for the bitcoin assets bot03:45
DicePowerAhhhh03:45
Birdmanhow did you hear about eulora?03:45
DicePowerThat makes sense.03:45
danielpbarron"This car can't be started because engine is missing" *starts anyway*03:45
mircea_popescuwin.03:46
DicePowerOut of curiosity, is there a 1 account per person limit, or unlimited?03:46
mircea_popescuthere's an acct per person03:46
DicePowerkk03:46
Birdmanand with death there's no incentive to sell accounts03:46
DicePowerThat's going to be awkward when they decide to have people register with their own email addresses lol03:46
mircea_popescui doubt that's ever going to happen03:46
DicePowerStrange policy03:46
DicePower"how did you hear about eulora?"  I just found it today.03:47
mircea_popescuwell... uncommon, for sure.03:47
DicePowerI've played presumably similar games.03:47
DicePowerI've played a lot of different real cash economies.03:48
mircea_popescuthese actually exist ?03:48
DicePowerYes!03:48
mircea_popesculist for my culture ?03:48
DicePowerEntropia Universe, AfterWorld (no longer exists), Second Life, Dragon's Tale (BTC based as well), Planet of Dreams03:49
DicePowerDiablo III when it was sort of an RCE in a sense03:49
mircea_popescui played d3 too, originally. but man the economy was broken03:49
mircea_popesculasted a few weeks for me, but it was grotesque03:49
mircea_popescunever seen the last one.03:49
DicePowerI stopped when they dropped the real money auction house.03:50
mircea_popescuwell i never played second life either, seemed retarded to me, but hey03:50
DicePowerThat was like their advertising gimmick.03:50
DicePowerThen they dropped it once kiddies complained.03:50
DicePowerI never understood second life03:50
mircea_popescushit this looks just like eulora03:50
DicePowerPlayed it a bit, never figured it out03:50
mircea_popescuhttp://amirgames.com/ <03:51
DicePowerWhich one looks like Eulora?03:51
lobbesbotTitle: Amir Games (at amirgames.com)03:51
DicePowerAhh yeah03:51
mircea_popescu"Monday, December 14, 201503:51
mircea_popescuFlapping wings03:51
mircea_popescuPlanet Of Dreams version 0.0.6 has been released with new additions and features.03:51
mircea_popescuYou can wear a nice looking Flapping wings which unlocks some features and make you eligible to receive 4,500 PODC from the commission generated from players without sponsor."03:51
mircea_popescuuh03:51
DicePowerAnother RCE that I haven't tried is Blue Mars.03:51
DicePowerSimilar to Second Life I think.03:52
mircea_popescuwell no, basically... it uses a very similar engine to eulora, judging by the terrai ntextures. but omfg the particles are ugly and retarded.03:52
mircea_popescuhttp://amirgames.com/Gallery.aspx <03:52
lobbesbotTitle: Planet Of Dreams gallery (at amirgames.com)03:52
DicePowerThere's a lot of focus on getting people to use your referral link and such in that game.03:53
mircea_popescuDicePower seems like there's basically just that guy. do you happen to know him ?03:53
DicePowerTrying to build a player base that way I guess.03:53
DicePowerI've talked to the guy and game and on the forum briefly.03:53
DicePower*in game03:54
DicePowerI wrote an installation guide for the game which he liked.03:54
mircea_popescuhey danielpbarron http://amirgames.com/ContactUs.aspx < mind contacting this guy (maybe pm on forum ? or maybe has some sm or something ?) see if he'll come over ?03:54
lobbesbotTitle: Contact us (at amirgames.com)03:54
mircea_popescumaybe he wants to do some work for s.mg instead of w/e that is.03:54
mircea_popescuDicePower do you have a contact ?03:54
DicePowerNope, other than PMing him on the forum.03:55
mircea_popescuaite.03:55
DicePowerLast I heard he's pretty enthusiastic about his game.03:56
DicePowerBut ofc that could change in the future.03:56
mircea_popescuwho ever knows.03:57
DicePowerAnno1777 is a real cash economy browser game.03:58
DicePowerNever played that one.03:58
DicePowerI haven't done the browser games, there are a few I think.03:58
DicePowerThen there's Aftertime Diaries.03:59
DicePowerThink it's not released yet, but a planned RCE.04:00
mircea_popescuwell this convo is proving quite instructive.04:00
DicePowerIt's funny, but I don't think there's really a list of all of these anywhere lol04:01
DicePowerThere ought to be a wikipedia page04:01
Birdmandanielpbarron what are you willing to buy these supp drafts for?04:02
danielpbarronbase value04:02
Birdmanqi?04:02
danielpbarronadjusted04:02
danielpbarronplus whatever amount makes it worth not just going to npc04:03
danielpbarronfor the whole lot that is04:03
Birdmanwell thats what i was thinking04:03
Birdmani know the npc will charge 30%, so how about 1.25 bv04:03
danielpbarroncharge?04:04
Birdmanif i were to sell to the npc, and you were to buy them04:04
danielpbarronelectron will buy them at exactly what they are worth if i'm not mistaken04:04
danielpbarronwhy would i do that?04:04
Birdmanbecause you want them04:04
danielpbarroni just want you to not sell them at base value04:04
danielpbarroni can always do that myself if i need to04:05
danielpbarroni'm willing to pay a little over for the novelty of it04:05
Birdmanthats what i'd sell em for04:06
Birdmanthe commons mind you, probably keeping all the rare's myself04:07
danielpbarronhow many do you even have?04:07
mircea_popescu"3"04:08
Birdmanprobably around 2k of each04:08
danielpbarronso like 1.8 mn or so worth04:11
danielpbarroni'm curious if electron offers what i think they are worth; i haven't actually tried selling any04:11
danielpbarron>> 34 years old, single, born and lives in Egypt. << heh04:12
mircea_popescuegypt is not that bad a place actually.04:13
mircea_popescuor wasn't at any rate04:13
danielpbarroni was hehing more at the 'single' part04:13
mircea_popescuah. common in arab lands.04:14
danielpbarronif he wasn't single, would he instead list "# of wives"04:15
mircea_popescupretty much04:16
danielpbarronsent him a message via his html form04:18
mircea_popescuforum pm prolly way better, but who knows.04:21
mircea_popescu"Unzipping (in Linux)04:22
mircea_popescuAn example of a different unzipping process is a Linux POD installation.  7-Zip works well on Windows, but on Linux, you will need an alternative program.   Right-click “PlanetOfDreams_[game version]_[your operating system].7z,” which should be in the “Downloads” section of your home folder (the folder with the name of your Linux account), accessible via the “Files” launcher, and select “Open with Archive Manager04:22
mircea_popescu.”  Click the “Search Command” button, and Archive Manager will find, download, and install the correct program for the job, a Linux-friendly version of 7-Zip called “p7zip.”  Just click the “Install” button.  Some distributions of Linux, by default, will ask for confirmation that you trust the source of the p7Zip program.  You can be confident by downloading and installing through Archive Manager that you have a04:22
mircea_popescu legitimate copy of p7Zip, which is a safe program and will not harm your computer.  You will be asked to provide your administrative password to complete the installation."04:22
mircea_popescuall this shit just to avoid making a fucking .tar.gz archive ?!04:22
hanbot.tar.gz prolly sounds very scary if one's not aware home is (the folder with the name of your Linux account)04:24
DicePowerI wrote this installation guide to make it a little easier, since it was kinda not explained very well.04:24
DicePowerhttp://planetofdreams.info/index.php?topic=61.004:24
DicePowerStill an easier install than the manual install of this game I think :P04:25
danielpbarron"It's easier. Just give keys to your house."04:28
mircea_popescuoh you wrote this ? k :p04:29
DicePowerYup04:29
DicePowerHas to access some other OSes to write it lol04:29
DicePower*Had04:29
mircea_popescuanyway, ftr, golden standard for linux is .tar.gz because they are standard cmd line tools in all distros, so everyone has them04:30
mircea_popescu" It’s really encouraging to hear that you like it, since I was hoping it would help get me off the naughty list for my little blunder the other day, hehe." lopl what did you do ?04:31
DicePowerOhhh04:31
DicePowerI created a second account by mistake while experimenting to write the guide, and he PMed me in game asking if I knew players were only allowed 1 account lol (before he knew I was working on the guide).04:32
mircea_popescuah.04:33
mircea_popescuanyway, if you're the sort that writes guides etc, you'll prolly like eulora, players oft get various bounties for doing stuff.04:33
DicePowerSweet04:34
DicePowerI always love to try RCEs out.04:35
DicePowerLooking forward to it04:35
mircea_popescudo you have a linux box you can compile it on ?04:36
DicePowerNo, only a virtual machine on VirtualBox.04:37
DicePowerSo I could try stuff on a VM, but don't have an actual linux OS.04:37
mircea_popescuaha. well then you're stuck till jurov shows up, i never ran it on a windows box myself.04:37
mircea_popescueu, so prolly be around in a few hours.04:38
DicePowerAhh okay, probably won't catch him tonight then, but I'll be back.04:38
mircea_popescumake yourself a pgp key in the meanwhile04:39
mircea_popescuyou know how to do that ?04:39
DicePowerFound video explaining it04:40
mircea_popescuyeah you want gpg4win or kleopatra or something04:40
DicePowerOhhhh, you put your name and email address into the key.04:41
DicePowerThat makes sense.04:41
mircea_popescunot like you have to. fields are optional.04:41
DicePowerThat's why you don't have to explicitly supply and email address I guess04:41
DicePowerOh okay, that's unrelated then04:42
DicePowerSo like, users basically handle their own password encryption?04:43
DicePowerThrough this process04:43
mircea_popescuhow do you mean ?04:43
DicePowerAssuming that's what the PGP key it outputs is04:44
mircea_popescuit's not, no.04:44
DicePowerahh okay04:44
mircea_popescuasymmetric ciphers (such as pgp) allow people to exchange secret communication without sharing a password.04:44
mircea_popescuby having your public key, i can make ciphered messages only you can read04:44
mircea_popescuwhich is how you get your eulora password04:44
DicePowerAhh okay04:45
mircea_popescuit's an important standard for privacy and so on.04:45
DicePowerYeah04:45
mircea_popescuand it's useful throughout your life. you never know when you need to talk to someone privately.04:45
mircea_popescumost competent people have a key. it for instance makes a good impression to have it in your cv, especially if trying to get a higher paying it job. etc.04:46
DicePowerIs it better than just using Tor to communicate?04:47
mircea_popescumuch.04:48
mircea_popescuother than being a tool of usg, tor communications are routinely exposed by third parties.04:48
DicePowerThat's interesting04:49
*** Quits: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)04:51
Birdmanauction of 9999 lbn q 53 and 3930 q 56 starting 570k04:54
danielpbarron570k here04:55
danielpbarronwhen does auction end?04:55
Birdmanoh, ends in 24 hours04:56
Birdmanmidnight tomorrow est time04:56
Birdman570k hear danielpbarron04:56
*** Quits: nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins) (Quit: Quit)05:08
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mircea_popescuhttp://planetofdreams.info/index.php?board=14.0 some pretty weird shit.07:00
*** Joins: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)07:17
diana_coman<DicePower> Foxybot doesn't work at all on Windows? <- it works in fact, it's just that it needs to be bundled up properly with the client; given the error Birdman listed, it's just a matter of updating the .xml file for the widget07:35
diana_comandanielpbarron, heh, no bp sale, no, updated shoppe http://www.dianacoman.com/eulora/foxystore/07:36
diana_comanBirdman, what tool did you use for those 30 rf claims?09:41
*** Joins: mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem)12:22
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mircea_popescuseems now i'm well stocked on apron lints o.O13:23
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diana_comanmircea_popescu, danielpbarron I'm willing to sell 1 turning wheel bp q166 + 1 petrified bubble (needed to make the wheel) q100; base values are 39654 and 43136 respectively; minimum price at which I'm willing to part with those 2 things though is 10mn seeing how I paid 45mn for one single bubble; let me know if interested13:44
mircea_popescui just want the bp13:44
diana_comando you have a bubble or planning to get one from the auction?13:45
mircea_popescuwell dunno yet.13:46
mircea_popescubut so far i'd like teh bp.13:46
diana_comanhm, now you make me wonder if making a bp requires having a bp as a kind of copy-process, lol13:50
diana_comanthrough bouq and etc but still13:51
mircea_popescunah.14:02
mircea_popescunot yet, at any rate.14:03
mircea_popescu"Thanks everyone14:28
mircea_popescuYou already know that I don't touch the money you spend to purchase PODC, I wait till you spend those PODC then I can take them out as revenue, the revenue I get helps me continue on the development without worrying about real life, when you purchase a Golden stars bag, you allow me to take out those money instantly as revenue and in the same time you will get back those money at a later date, we still need more bag purchases14:28
mircea_popescuas fast as possible, if you have enough PODC in your account to purchase more bags after setting aside enough to cover your playing expenses for some time, then you should definitely purchase more bags, you don't have to wait till you fill the Flapping wings you have already, if you are not planning to withdraw those PODC any time soon, then it is better to purchase more bags with those PODC now than keeping them in your accou14:28
mircea_popescunt, that way you lose nothing and in the same time you are making the game evolves faster."14:28
mircea_popescudoes this sound nonsensical to anyone else ?14:28
diana_comanwtf is that -makes my head hurt14:29
diana_comanI *think* I could decode it but ...14:29
mircea_popescubasically, my understanding at this point is : there's a guy in egypt, who is competent enough with computers to have found a game engine, not competent enough with business to sort a three accounts plan and also not competent enough with computers to know wtf linux is.14:31
mircea_popescuthis would suggest self taught.14:31
mircea_popescuthis fellow also doesn't know what bitcoin is, or what the fundamental problems with paypal are (this probably on account of being obscure, but he wouldn't know).14:32
diana_comanlol, wanted to say that it sounds like he is in fact probably ok, just not really knowing much about accounting + now begging the players in a bit of a weird way for some reason14:32
mircea_popescuhe then proceeded to try and make an economy-based game, and is taking real cash from players, but due to the earlier stated business ignorance has no fucking idea what is what, confuses profit and cost and unearned income and everything else liberally.14:32
mircea_popescuthe end result of which being that he will end up scamming, without actually meaning to.14:33
diana_comanthat's the thing: at first it sounded like a scam; then decoding it made me think he probably doesn't mean to14:33
mircea_popescudiana_coman it is impossible for his thing to stand because he manifestly doesn't understand the subject enough to keep the categories clean.14:33
diana_comanbut yeah, chances are he'll end up in a big mess14:34
mircea_popescuso NECESSARILY a positive feedback loop will form somewhere, and in all homeostatic systems, pfl = death.14:34
mircea_popescuor in an alternative formulation, a random connection of nodes that are ambiguously defined necessarily will result in cyclical graphs, which are uncomputable.14:34
mircea_popescuironically his best move would be to sell out, before he sours the small community he's built ; but this is likely to be his least favoured option subjectively.14:35
mircea_popescuthe problems of people.14:35
diana_comanor to find and team up with someone who knows business and is willing (ahem, if at this stage they'd still be ) to sort out the mess before it hits the fan or something14:36
mircea_popescunevertheless, THIS is the fundamental, deep reason fiat economy works as it does. a) paypal beheading people as they grow UNLESS they go through the sanctioned corporation movements is precisely an odds play : odds are, says paypal, correctly, that you're doing what he is doing and don't do that.14:36
mircea_popescub) the whole "the point is to sell out to VCs" thing idem : the only way your thing is valuable is because you've not fucked it up yet, sell it now while it's still worth something14:37
diana_comanI suppose he really just doesn't even begin to realise what trouble he's likely to be in14:37
mircea_popescua point eerily reminiscent of joe pesci's outro in casino.14:37
mircea_popescu"But it turned out to be the last time that street guys like us were ever given anything that fuckin' valuable again."14:38
mircea_popescui suppose the best construction is that he's an aborted sales guy who ended up pressured into taking up programming to "make something". because he's clearly worthless as a programmer, but he did built SOMETHING. overall a better situation than the reverse (which also explains why salespeople are more inclined to learn to code than coder people to learn to sell)14:42
diana_comanin that case though I kind of don't get why is that message written in such a diarrhoea style really14:43
diana_comanmight be just that I've been reading code most of this day so far and I'm possibly biased re structure of messages, lol14:45
mircea_popescunobody understands salesmen.14:46
mircea_popescuit's fundamentally an unstructurable activity, which is why it attracts different people than engineering or medicine.14:46
mircea_popescu(formally - given a string A, a string B and a demographic, it is an intractable problem for you to calculate whether A > B or not for any measure you define that involves specific performance)14:48
diana_comanbut does that sound like a good sales pitch in any way?14:48
mircea_popescuto whom ?14:48
diana_comanto his community14:48
diana_comanthat's what matters I'd say, no?14:49
mircea_popescui can trivially create a demographic for which it does :14:49
mircea_popescu"the people who look for a sales pitch that diverges from what diana_coman thinks is a good sales pitch"14:49
diana_comanhe is specifically addressing his community there14:49
mircea_popescubut this is no argument - that community is selected somehow.14:49
diana_comanthe players who already have bought those podc or whatever14:49
mircea_popescudo you understand why spam emails work [when they do] ?14:49
diana_comanthat they select for stupid people in the first place?14:50
mircea_popescuyup.14:50
mircea_popescunot even stupid per se. tolerant of specific things.14:50
diana_comanoh, you mean that the community is already a fit for his sales "style" hence win14:50
diana_comanpossibly14:50
diana_comanyes, that's why it took me so long to write that- I was searching for a better word than stupid and still not found it14:50
mircea_popescuwell broadly speaking i'm just saying that you can't reason deductively on the basis of labels you put on items in nature14:50
mircea_popescufor the items precede the labels.14:51
mircea_popescuwhat you call "his community" may be what i said above or a myriad other things. no way to know.14:51
diana_comanaha14:51
mircea_popescuit's incomputable, which is why war is broadly unavoidable. "a large body of men assembled to rectify the mistakes of diplomats"... well not exactly. diplomacy necessarily breaks down, as per godel.14:52
*** Quits: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)15:11
mircea_popescuaactually... we have a trace on this story. was coded by a freelancer named sameh yosuf https://twitter.com/samehghays15:17
lobbesbotTitle: Sameh Yosef (@samehghays) | Twitter (at twitter.com)15:17
mircea_popescuwho is a male, 37, single, and a SALES EXECUTIVE. http://iamtotallydesperate.com/?q=user/1841115:17
mircea_popescudanielpbarron plox drop a message @that asking him if he's involved in this planet of dreams thing15:18
*** Joins: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)15:27
danielpbarrondone15:34
diana_comanaha sales; lol executive16:13
mircea_popescuyou know that seinfeld episode when elaine points out "i am an associate"16:16
mircea_popescuand the cafeteria waitress chimes in that so is she ?16:16
* diana_coman is rubbish in the visual arts/entertainment area16:17
diana_comanbut I saw that for real, lol16:17
danielpbarroni watch seinfeld almost every night; still syndicated over here :D16:17
mircea_popescui have it digitized.16:23
mircea_popescupossibly only sitcom i ever liked.16:23
*** Joins: hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot)16:31
jurovDicePower: it should work, what's the problem?17:49
mircea_popescuanyone else got variouas ladle handles ?17:50
mircea_popescuso diana_coman / q researchers : tinkering 154 ; l 410 cooking q 149 ; l 410 mcguyver q 15219:26
mircea_popescui clearly get better results mcguyvering than cooking, same everything.19:26
*** Joins: sameh (5e4c31d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.76.49.217)19:27
*** Parts: sameh (5e4c31d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.76.49.217) ()19:28
mircea_popescuin other news, crafting up all that q 200ish grass i was keeping in storage sure is fucking pleasant.19:28
mircea_popescui guess ill be back to mining!19:28
mircea_popescudanielpbarron ^ seems it worked eh.19:29
danielpbarronheh, I got an email from one and a twitter reply from the other19:36
mircea_popescunb.19:43
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> so diana_coman / q researchers : tinkering 154 ; l 410 cooking q 149 ; l 410 mcguyver q 152 <- what tink level is that at?20:27
mircea_popescu80320:28
mircea_popescu805* actually. not that it makes a difference20:29
*** Joins: Birdman (~birdman@32.212.87.18)20:32
diana_comanBirdman, what tool did you use to get those 30 rf claims?20:56
diana_comanmircea_popescu, it's more for my records and any future analysis, thanks20:57
mircea_popescui mean, 803... 805, still i get same tink q20:57
diana_comanwell, technically speaking it's not exactly the same20:57
diana_comankind of 154.3 vs 154.5 or whatever20:57
diana_comanbut practically same, true20:58
mircea_popescuyeah no way to measure in tinkering.20:58
diana_comanoh, mircea_popescu do you want 2 more stacks of grass to make into cft?20:58
diana_comanq520:58
diana_comanah, no bps20:58
diana_comandrat20:58
mircea_popescui'd take it, just... not selling the cft :D20:59
diana_comanbwahahaha20:59
mircea_popescu:)20:59
* mircea_popescu jingles his coins... i hear there's an auction coming... ppls need moneyz yes ? 21:00
diana_comanactually there is a way to approximate it ok, namely note when you get a new level, how many in between, divide, there21:00
diana_comanlol21:00
mircea_popescui tried that and it doesn't work for shit.21:00
diana_comannot that it is constant!21:00
mircea_popescufunny, it works well for hanbot. but not really for me.21:00
diana_comanyou mean it works at lower levels?21:01
diana_comanor did you compare at same levl?21:01
mircea_popescuapparently.21:01
mircea_popescuwell no, she's lower.21:01
diana_comanwell, at lower levels the intervals are more like "every 2 levels -> +1 q point"21:01
mircea_popescu2s, or 3s, ro something21:02
diana_comanyeah, well, no need to do anything there basically21:02
diana_comanI'm still curious with this mining re grocery as mining keeps growing at that "weird" rate compared to grocery21:03
diana_comanno idea why is that or whether it will stop abruptly and get stuck for ages21:03
diana_comanbut the trouble is double there because 1. ran out of pickaxes 2. it's fucking stubbornly neg21:04
mircea_popescumining ?21:04
mircea_popescuso use cs.21:04
diana_coman?21:05
diana_comanhow does that help exactly on the long term?21:05
diana_comanor what, only cs21:05
mircea_popescuif you're out of cats, eat dogs!21:06
diana_comanand monkeys if you have no plate either :p21:07
mircea_popescu:)21:07
Birdmandiana_coman: basic hoes / i think the training price, and q increases per level are effected by competition in that skill line. Less miners means better results at a certain level than for something else like tinkering?21:45
diana_comanaha, so we had barehand/basic hoes/imp hoes21:46
Birdmanheh21:46
Birdmanprobably shoulda used the same method21:46
diana_comanI don't know about the competition re training prices - don't even know if training price varies as it were, since I haven't seen anyone else's data on this21:46
Birdmanwell my higher gathering level costs less to train than my tinkering, and i always felt it was because there was much less exp in gathering relative to tinkering21:47
Birdmanwas just a theory21:47
Birdmanno interest in those lbn huh?21:48
Birdmanis it because i didnt start it at the bv adjusted for q?21:48
diana_comanhm, I don't see that on building/gathering where I can compare21:48
mircea_popescuhmm, i suppose i should make a batch of clogs huh21:48
*** Quits: jurov (~jurov@impr-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) (*.net *.split)21:48
diana_comanBirdman, what is that again?21:48
diana_comanwhat lbn are you selling and at what price?21:48
Birdmanauction of 9999 lbn q 53 and 3930 q 56 starting 570k21:49
Birdmanand dan bid 570k21:49
*** Joins: jurov (~jurov@mx.coinbr.com)21:49
mircea_popescuwell because it's kinda confusing. so you selling a total of 13929 lbn ?21:49
Birdmanyes, at those qualities21:50
diana_comanwas just figuring out what's in there; 600k for the total 13929 lbn21:50
mircea_popescuaha. i dun want lbn atm - i have decided i shall go out and mine my remarkables.21:50
mircea_popescu2 grass + 1 tpt.21:50
diana_comanooo, do tell what you get21:51
mircea_popescuyep21:51
Birdman600k heard diana_coman, ends in 6 hours21:51
mircea_popescuprolly a huge pile of grass enough to wipe my remainder bps, at any rate.21:51
diana_comandon't they take double distillates or do you have those?21:51
BirdmanNoticed it said bouqanists will be looting bps with certain crafts, not crafting bps themselves21:52
danielpbarron630k21:52
mircea_popescudiana_coman well it's a process, will take me a while. but it's why i don't want lbn right now.21:53
mircea_popescui have the stuff for the grass ready, anyway.21:53
mircea_popescudo you want the recipes before they'\re used up ?21:54
diana_comancft recipes you mean?21:54
mircea_popescunono, the content of remarkable enums21:54
mircea_popescufor your site21:54
diana_comanlemme check what I have, 1 min21:54
mircea_popescui got sb, cdg, tpt and sm21:54
mircea_popescusb needs the wdd21:55
diana_comanhave the grass, need the tpt for sure21:55
diana_comanI have grass, wm, sr, bn, pss21:55
mircea_popescutpt is : 23 btk-b 2us 22 fcs 24 st ouch 17 tlc scs 3pn 16 eps 5sb 3 wwb21:55
mircea_popescuwhich i got all of .21:55
diana_comanespecially ouches21:55
diana_comannoted21:56
mircea_popescusb is : 3 wdd 11 bf 26 bng 3 scs ddl 43 tlc ouch 4 dcs 38 sb 3 sg 2 lh 2sm 4 b f cdg21:56
diana_comangot that, will add, thanks21:56
mircea_popescusm is : 3 us rdd 23 gt 3 so 11 fcs 6 pcs 7 tlc 16 pss 2 f nt 6 sb b21:57
mircea_popescuwant eps ord too ?21:57
mircea_popescuor tpt ?21:57
danielpbarroni think i know that one by heart21:58
mircea_popesculol.21:58
mircea_popescuhey DicePower check out the crazy economy in eulora :D21:58
danielpbarronpointy slag 4 tubers 2 boulders 14 beans 3 snails.. and a solid branch?21:58
danielpbarronoh and a beetle21:58
mircea_popescuthe eps ?!21:58
danielpbarronthorns ord21:58
diana_comanneah, the ordinaries I have21:59
mircea_popescupcs md 3eps 14 bb 4 nt sb 2b21:59
danielpbarronnailed it :D21:59
mircea_popescumissed the beetle yo21:59
danielpbarronahem..21:59
mircea_popescuoh nm :D22:00
mircea_popescuhow many of these did you dig up lol22:00
danielpbarrona lot22:00
mircea_popescui guess my lumberjac exclusive wasn't really worth 25mn in the end huh22:00
diana_comandanielpbarron, do you have any high q wm?22:00
mircea_popescuyeah, i want sometoo i think. what q do you shroom ?22:01
danielpbarronshrooms is not so easy22:02
mircea_popescueven with sticks ?22:02
diana_comanmircea_popescu, what is GT?22:03
mircea_popescugrubsilk thread22:03
danielpbarronthey need shed snakeskins22:03
mircea_popescuyou have it as gst ?22:03
mircea_popescuare ss still not found ?22:03
diana_comanah, yes, thread22:03
danielpbarroni know where it is, but it's still very expensive22:03
diana_comanss is found but as danielpbarron says: a pain to get22:04
mircea_popescuaha22:04
danielpbarroni should have Birdman find me an ord of it though22:04
danielpbarronmaybe the ord is easy to build (i doubt it though!)22:04
diana_comanbwahahaha, nope22:04
mircea_popescuget a remarkable, be safe.22:04
diana_coman^^22:04
mircea_popescuthen you know for sure it's a pain to build, no need to wonder.22:04
danielpbarronlol22:04
diana_comanyou'll spend a bunch of cs on it for sure22:04
mircea_popescuwell he bought it by the 100s22:05
danielpbarronwait so you know what a snakeskin ord takes, diana_coman ?22:05
danielpbarronit's not on your list22:05
diana_comanyeah, he can get about 50 ss ords on that with a noob :D22:05
mircea_popesculol so basically the hammers hanbot sold give mining don't they.22:05
diana_comanheh, there is SOME info that I did not rush to make public yo22:05
danielpbarroni know another way to get snakeskins but it's even more expensive i'm afraid22:05
mircea_popescuand so diana putin has been cornering the resource market on the sly, she got grocery and mining nao.22:06
diana_comanin any case snakeskin is mining so dunno if anyone gets it higher q than me atm22:06
mircea_popescudiana_coman what q do you get it ?22:06
danielpbarroni can make quality 135ish snakeskin22:07
Birdman630k heard danielpbarron, will also be afk so feel free to bid, will monitor the log22:07
mircea_popescueither of you selling ss ?22:07
diana_comandanielpbarron, from mining you mean or from the altar?22:07
diana_coman136q mircea_popescu22:07
mircea_popescuahahaha check them out, neck in neck :D22:07
mircea_popescuoutbid each other to sell me a cheap 1k ss!22:07
danielpbarronlet's just say my snakeskins don't get a crafter mark ;)22:07
diana_comanlooool22:07
mircea_popescu900c each ?22:08
mircea_popescu:D ? :D :D ??22:08
danielpbarronand anyway if i had snakeskins i'd use them on shroom ords obviously22:08
mircea_popescuso get them!22:08
danielpbarronsometimes i go and waste sticks to get smalls for this purpose22:08
mircea_popescudid you just buy the line to sit on it omaigerd!!1122:08
diana_comanI don't care about the crafter mark  or how you get them even, I just wanted to know whether you build mining stuff at 135q22:08
diana_comanmircea_popescu, who's sitting on what?22:08
diana_comanI mine all day AND night, lol22:09
danielpbarronwell i rushed into sacrificing at first and it cost me dearly so i'm pretty jaded on just using things up22:09
mircea_popescurabble! scandal!22:09
diana_comanbut not ss fgs22:09
danielpbarrondiana_coman, well when you build claims, you get a crafter mark, no?22:09
diana_comansometimes?22:09
diana_comanlol22:09
mircea_popesculol22:09
danielpbarronyou haven't noticed why not always?22:09
diana_comanI didn't actually keep an eye on the crafter mark, must say22:09
danielpbarronloot doesn't get a craftermark22:10
diana_comanwell yes, but the difference in q loot vs built is 1 from what I saw22:11
diana_comannever saw some bigger diff22:11
diana_comanso I considered it together really build = output+loot22:11
*** Quits: Birdman (~birdman@32.212.87.18) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)22:11
danielpbarronthe 'output' has your mark, the 'loot' doesn't22:11
danielpbarronand depending on what order they fall into your inventory, one will overpower the other22:12
danielpbarronso sometimes you'll come back to town with a crafter mark, and sometimes not22:12
danielpbarronunless you go out of your way to keep them separate in a table or something22:12
diana_comanaha22:13
diana_coman675k on the lbn22:14
danielpbarron709k22:15
diana_coman750k22:16
danielpbarron788k22:16
diana_coman825k22:16
danielpbarron867k22:17
mircea_popescuo.O22:17
diana_comanthey are yours danielpbarron22:18
danielpbarronfinally birdman makes an auction that's a hit22:18
mircea_popescuthanks the gods he said something, poor birdman22:18
danielpbarronand w00t22:18
danielpbarroni need them22:18
diana_comangood for you22:18
diana_comanI need them too, but not *that* badly22:18
mircea_popescushould make a decent profit for him somewhere in there.22:18
* mircea_popescu just completed his third stack of numina stuff. ftw!22:19
diana_comanlbn is numina too, lol22:19
mircea_popescuwhich are known so far ? i got petrified tinkerer feelings ; apron lint, various ladle handles22:20
mircea_popescuah and library mites.22:20
mircea_popescuand dusts.22:20
* diana_coman hasn't been tinkering much 22:20
mircea_popesculapidary ?22:20
diana_comanah true, it gave me something, what was it, lol22:21
diana_comangemdust?22:21
mircea_popescuso basically i got l1 and l2 cooking/bouq and l1 tinkering. o wait, and brave man nose hairs. l1 mcguyver22:21
mircea_popescuaha!22:21
diana_comanI prolly have the basic numina from all the lines or something22:22
mircea_popescuonly you o.O22:22
diana_comanha ha, possibly22:22
mircea_popescuso i have a question for the esteemed playerbase re future development.22:23
mircea_popescuthere is this well known scam, the dollar auction.22:23
mircea_popescuit was specifically designed to show how independent players following rational choice theory make ultimately irrational decisions.22:23
mircea_popescui'm half thinking to put a npc in game which offers 1 of rare items on auction, lets people bid.22:24
danielpbarronis that the thing where you pay per bid? and you can only bid in very small amounts?22:24
mircea_popescuno, 1st and 2nd have to pay. 1st gets the item.22:24
danielpbarronouch22:25
mircea_popescuaha.22:25
mircea_popescuit's fucking evil, in and of itself. petrified bubble shows up or something... mind the rail.22:25
mircea_popescuso basically my question reduces to "how masochistic are you lot ?"22:25
danielpbarroncouldn't two players just agree to split it or something?22:26
diana_comanlol, on the bubble thing the trouble was that the value was unknown and that at the time I had no idea that the line was still empty22:26
mircea_popescudanielpbarron they could. the only reasson this is not a scam per se is because of the unique atmosphere cultivated in eulora (ie, strong identities etc)22:27
mircea_popescubut just as they could, they could not.22:27
diana_comanbut otherwise yeah, I'd either reach some agreement or not get into it above some very (and I mean very) low threshold of what I'd lose if someone outbids; think 5c for the dollar thing, lol22:27
danielpbarronright like "i'll outbid you unless you agree to pay me back for my bid"22:28
mircea_popescu(two players in confederation is not a stable solution - they just become one player for the purpose of this thing, any passer by can fuck them)22:28
danielpbarronright but at that point the price is so high nobody can be bothered22:28
mircea_popescuwell, this all depends.22:29
mircea_popescuon the plus side, i do want to add a little "buy items into game" valve, but not too much. so something like 1 item bv > 10k / week or such would be perfect for this role.22:30
danielpbarronit should be possible to find this bubble thing through gathering?22:31
mircea_popescuyes. it was mining iirc22:31
mircea_popescujust like you know, it should have been possible to loot an altar bp, just nobody did. and so on.22:32
diana_comanbubble is mining yes, so my understanding is that one can find it through mining but you know, anyone found canines yet?22:32
diana_comanthey are ALSO mining and cheaper than the bubble and still22:32
mircea_popescui've never found 'em. or even ST , and i did a bunch of lj22:32
diana_comanaha22:33
mircea_popescutho possibly not as much as danielpbarron22:33
mircea_popescuhey what q do you get on lj now ?22:33
danielpbarronless than 10022:34
* mircea_popescu wistfully recalls the days he got close to 20022:34
diana_comanmircea_popescu, what is scs and ddl ?22:35
mircea_popescudolce de leche and sharp clump of slag22:36
diana_comanahhh, kk, thanks22:36
diana_comanSCoS22:36
mircea_popescuscos, bagat, tot un drac.22:36
diana_comanda' unul pronuntabil macar!22:37
mircea_popesculol22:38
diana_comanadded all the mining recipes (incl ord ss which I actually mixed up with the dm - it's not that bad in fact)22:43
diana_comanhttp://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/MiningRecipes.txt22:43
* diana_coman will get one day to port over the mining stuff to the script and link it in with all the rest - one day22:44
mircea_popescuwhat'd be nice would be pages like for the other recipes22:44
mircea_popescuwith bill of material etc22:44
mircea_popescuheck, a graph like for V stuff also22:44
diana_comanif I just port it over, the rest is done automagically22:45
diana_comanso yes, there'd be what they are used in etc22:45
diana_comanbill of materials22:45
diana_comana graph ahem22:45
mircea_popescu:p22:46
diana_comanI toyed a bit with a text-graphic thing for the tinker tree :)))22:46
diana_comanoh, 27 eggs in 62 hits, not totally horrible22:47
danielpbarronoh huh, yeah those are totally buildable22:58
danielpbarroni'd rather buy the results of someone else's though22:58
danielpbarronmy how things change >> http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-12-28.log.html?#t17:24:0423:38
lobbesbotTitle: #Eulora log for Monday, 2015-12-28 (at logs.minigame.bz)23:38

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