#Eulora log for Thursday, 2016-01-14

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*** Joins: Birdman (~birdman@32.212.87.18)04:34
BirdmanWas wondering how i use the bot?04:36
Birdmanwould someone rather buy ltf or improb oil?04:55
mircea_popescui'd buy either.05:03
Birdmanmy tinkering output puts me at selling to you for 94% bv05:12
Birdmanso ill probably end up making the oils05:12
mircea_popescuaite.05:18
mircea_popescuif you make some low oil make some low slag too ima sell you high shaped slag then05:18
mircea_popescuyou can make some samovars and get bps for sale, or make tools.05:19
Birdmansounds good05:19
BirdmanSo i need to loot 540k worth of bps from this ltf run to break even excluding exp gained and training costs05:23
Birdmanyou're selling screens right mircea_popescu05:30
mircea_popescuyeah. i got a 681k durability one you can have for 1.3mn05:30
Birdmanthat 190%?05:31
mircea_popescuyeah05:31
Birdmani'll take em05:31
mircea_popescuhow many ?05:31
Birdmanhow many do you have?05:31
mircea_popescu3, actually.05:32
Birdmanhmm, let me check reserves quick to see what i can monetize05:32
BirdmanOh, do they come with some clogs?05:32
mircea_popescuunfortunately they do not. but i'll be making some more clogs later on.05:33
mircea_popescuif you're looking for something to make low q, i'd readily buy BMS. need 12 per clog, i can make you as many as you want.05:33
mircea_popescuanyway, you in town ?05:34
BirdmanYes, are you interested in any bps by the way? thats where most of my holdings are at the moment, have some resources i could get rid of as well05:35
mircea_popescuwell, what you got ?05:36
Birdmani have some rr, boulders, and rf for basic harvest, and i have lots of bps for multiple skill lines05:38
Birdmanvarious low q crafts but not in any significant amount05:38
mircea_popescuspecificity won't kill you.05:39
mircea_popescuanyway, sure i buy boulders, rf, etc.05:39
mircea_popescuweren't you also selling used up tools ?05:41
Birdmanbps for almost wine, basketcase, chair for head, craft table, basic tools, wineskin, harness, shaped slags, ltf, oils, gin, screwdriver, ppb, hauberk, flatbread, mockasillies05:42
Birdmanand a bunch of supp drafts05:42
mircea_popescuwhat q's are these ? 70s ?05:42
Birdmanyeah i have those too05:42
Birdmanthe bps? more like 30q05:43
mircea_popescuhow muych for the wine, tools, wineskin, shaped slags, oils, gin an' bread ?05:43
mircea_popescuand how many you got ?05:43
Birdmani have 21 wine, 71 hoes 277 adze 174 picks 4 imp adze, 147 wineskin, 26 flat 21 pointy 26 sharp, 105 oils, 27 gin, 53 breads05:47
BirdmanI was thinking something like 70% of bv @ 100q05:48
mircea_popescuthat works. 635k the lot.05:51
Birdman1732 rr at q23, 1050 rf at 46q, 707 boulders at 43q05:52
Birdmanand 105 worn basic tools05:52
BirdmanI'd sell you some of the high q resources i have but to turn a profit i'd have to charge some 50% over05:53
Birdmanand some stuff even 80%05:53
Birdmanoh and ordinary claims of anything besides grc and st05:55
Birdmanand the nuts05:56
mircea_popescuthat's ok.05:56
Birdmanyeah i figured as much, i should probably start getting some noob work done05:57
mircea_popescuhm you got wm claims ? or what ?05:57
Birdmanjust two of those, though can make more on request05:57
mircea_popescuhow much for 'em ?05:58
Birdman40k a pop05:58
mircea_popescummmh.05:58
mircea_popescunah ill pass.05:58
Birdmanno problem05:58
mircea_popescuheh it went down did it.05:59
Birdmanseems that way05:59
mircea_popescu35 * 14326 * 1.25 = 626762.5 hanbot06:07
hanbotmuch obliged06:08
mircea_popescuo btw Birdman srs i also want low q.06:09
Birdmancool ill work it out06:12
mircea_popescuaite so you ready to trade here ?06:13
Birdmanyes06:13
mircea_popescuhit me.06:13
Birdmanim overladen06:13
mircea_popescudrop something pick it back up.06:14
BirdmanAlso i'll take two screens06:15
mircea_popescu707 * 59 * .99 + 1050 * 80 * 1.01 + 105 * 2000 + 1732 * 67 * .85 = 434773.2706:16
mircea_popescu+ 635k from before call it an even mil.06:16
Birdmansounds good06:16
Birdmanjust take my 1.6 and call it two screens06:17
mircea_popescucool.06:17
Birdmanare you sort of giving up on bouq or do you see the piqued interest in the items?06:18
mircea_popescuima log off you can pick up06:18
Birdmankk06:18
Birdmangot em06:19
mircea_popescuwell the thing is, i'm so behind on my own craft i can't in good conscience just sit o nthe tools.06:19
mircea_popescunot to mention i'm the one making them, can always make myself more.06:19
Birdmanah06:19
BirdmanHow many more do you have?06:23
mircea_popescubut by the time i'm done making this 15k goop (o.O) diana_coman will prolly have finished with the 2nd bottle batch so i'll be making ~5k io. this alone is going to take me to almost the end of the month.06:23
mircea_popescuand then i wanna make a coupla hundred csw, and make it into aw. and then i gotta make some imp hoes. and some ft and cs. and on it goes. im buried.06:24
BirdmanAre the skill book bps in the loot pool once you unlock them? or are they solely yours?06:25
mircea_popescumore research needed there06:25
BirdmanKk, i do loot dsti's06:26
*** Quits: Birdman (~birdman@32.212.87.18) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)12:48
jurovdiana_coman: FYI exploration bot (crafting likely too) crashes whole client when inventory has no free slots: http://dpaste.com/2YC281P14:09
lobbesbotTitle: dpaste: 2YC281P: crash on bot mining right after login, by jurov (at dpaste.com)14:09
diana_comanouch, thanks jurov, I'll check that14:09
diana_comancrafting has nothing to do with moving stuff to inv so don't see why/how that would crash14:10
diana_comanbut will look into exploring14:10
jurovthanks. craftbot does move the results into inventory, too (but i see it only calls "get and stack all")14:11
diana_comanthat's what I meant: it's entirely different thing14:11
diana_comanuhmmm, jurov, ca you tell me what were you doing exactly?14:13
jurovit tried to replace worn tool14:14
diana_comanit's a bit weird as to how it gets there: did you start exploring with a full inventory?14:14
diana_comanI know what the bot was doing, just that it's a bit of a weird case to end up doing that14:14
diana_comananyway, 1 sec for the fix14:14
jurovyes, i logged in and forgot  inv is full14:14
jurovoh it;s not urgent14:14
diana_comanahhh, I see; good catch there, I should have checked that again for sure14:16
diana_comanjust needs another if (toolSlot == NULL) { Error(); OutputMsg(csString("Inventory full, will stop.")); break;}14:17
diana_comanline 122 in botactivity.cpp14:17
diana_comanI'll add that to next release14:17
diana_comanhmm, I'll have to check that bloody client function returns null when inv is full14:18
diana_comanit does claim to return NULL, but then again there are the hidden slot14:19
diana_comanslots14:19
mircea_popescuteh hidden sluts.14:20
diana_comanheh, more like hidden slugs maybe in this client14:20
mircea_popescubtw diana_coman i looked through my stash, i actually have 600+ ST.14:21
diana_comanha, I kept selling my st to you for samovars and you were just stashing them under the bed!!!14:21
mircea_popescu:D14:21
diana_comanlol, but that's good news14:21
mircea_popescuneway i don't intend to pricegauge or anything.14:22
mircea_popescujust, can make a buncha samovars. will need bps, as i don't have nearly that many, but still.14:22
diana_comanaha, good to hear14:22
mircea_popescusituation not as dire as previously thought.14:22
diana_comanlet me check as I think I got some of those with wyrd's toolkit run14:22
mircea_popescuo.O14:22
diana_comanby far the most economical way of getting samovar bps14:22
diana_comanway more economical than by making shitty samovars I'd say14:22
mircea_popescutoolkit runs ? nah, can't be. samovar runs should be hmm14:23
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> situation not as dire as previously thought. <- yes14:23
mircea_popescucuz even if tool destruction, still, at least no st huh ?14:23
mircea_popescui can see it.14:23
diana_comanyes, because of the st14:23
mircea_popescuyeah ok.14:23
mircea_popescuso almost halfway through my dg run, like 1-2 days to go i'd say. how's the bottle process ?14:24
diana_comanmeanwhile wyrd vanished so not sure when the whole flasks run will be ready;hopefully he does make a come back14:24
diana_comanoh, you wanted some of the toolkit bps too, will go through them when I get back to town14:24
mircea_popescualso birdman you can have my last 5 shoes for 65k each if you still want ? but i do want bms so keep that in mind also.14:24
mircea_popescudiana_coman no rush, can all be in the same trade.14:24
diana_comancool14:25
mircea_popescuthinking about it... obviously i don't actually need the last of the bottles until done with the first of the bottles :)14:26
diana_comanheh, that sounds like reason14:26
mircea_popescuso there's at least a week here.14:26
mircea_popescualso i LOVE the fact that i can actually level tinkering.14:26
diana_comanwith the bottles you mean? or now with the dg run?14:27
mircea_popescuie, in spite of the huge demands of tinkering volume i need for a skill, nevertheless it doesn't also you know, bring q up like it used to ?14:27
mircea_popescuremember historically if yo ugot high enough it actually moved ~as fast as you.14:27
diana_comanah, yes14:27
diana_comantrue14:27
mircea_popescubut as the game economy grew... so grew the "skill aperture" so to speak. which is lovely.14:27
diana_comandoes it still? I think I kept asking you about this and you said no?14:27
diana_comanaha14:27
mircea_popescuwell it would if i were high enough, i'm sure. but seems i am not yet.14:28
diana_comanftr 7 levels up in gung-ho + 4 in tink and ...same q on cooking, lol14:28
mircea_popescuouch.14:28
mircea_popescucurious when i get 15514:28
diana_comanI am collecting the data anyway, but it makes for painful reading, lol14:28
mircea_popescubeen spending some real ecu on this levelling business.14:29
diana_comanah, I should better collect that data too if I am at it, huh14:29
diana_comanie money/level14:29
mircea_popescuyeah.14:30
mircea_popescui tell you... lvl towards 800 is like .3mn each14:30
diana_comanwow14:30
diana_comanthen again 800 level is huge14:30
mircea_popescuwell... q 15414:31
diana_comanprolly in the future one dies 10 times before getting there , lol14:31
mircea_popescunah, the idea for "expected lifespan" is 100 game years ~100 weeks.14:31
mircea_popescuwe've not been playing for two years yet, and for that matter in the future prolly more intensive ways to skill will be available anyway.14:31
diana_comanwell, the books at least, for sure14:31
diana_comanaha14:32
mircea_popescuno i just mean... i plan to make it possible for you to start your own fucking factory eventually.14:32
mircea_popescuand hire helpers and whatnot.14:32
diana_comanha, that'd be cool14:32
mircea_popescubut in simpler terms : think mining. pre stick and post stick, not hte same.14:32
mircea_popescunow what if in the future the market is large enough you can all-stick ? also not ther same14:32
mircea_popescuthat kinda thing14:32
diana_comantrue14:32
mircea_popescuso i think even without magic, and even without skill orbs and chips and books and everything, "a few thousand" is not inconceivable.14:33
mircea_popescujust how many is a few though... remains to be seen i guess.14:33
mircea_popescubut surely having your name on "top tinkerer all time" won't be an idle honor.14:33
mircea_popescualso as a point of policy, since we're talking about this : i intend that after bitcoin crosses 1k again, once it looks stable-ly there, to devalue ECU/bitcoin such that each btc buys 10mn ecu instead of 1. as part of this, everyone will receive a sum of cash equal to 9x the sum of their cash and the q-adjusted market-value of all things they own. so in this sense, both training and keeping above-mkt value items constitutes a14:40
mircea_popescurisk, which players should evaluate. it is obviously no different from the risk eulora or s.mg close down.14:40
diana_comanaha14:41
mircea_popescumore significant is perhaps than the risk the game gets somehow hacked / owned , if that sends inflation out of control.14:42
diana_comantalking of training costs: I just paid ~150k for a gathering level around 45014:42
mircea_popescubut anyway, not avoidable, i don't think, lest bitcoin ends up you know, 1mn dollars and then wtf we do, can't play anymore ?14:42
jurovwat? btc buys 100mn ecu atm14:44
mircea_popescujurov sorry, 1bn instead of 100mn i mean.14:44
mircea_popescuwas thinking bitcents for some reason.14:46
mircea_popescuso i'm willing to sell at auction 55 WM q 199. these are, as of currently, irreplaceable.15:18
mircea_popescutaking bids, starting with... hm. 100k. will sell them by sunday, so make your offers before that.15:19
jurovimo ECU is pretty much devalued already. not even 10 coppers have any meaningful value15:22
jurovand with 100 coppers you can maybe think about byuing some lbon, nothing else15:24
jurovafter 10:1 exchange we can abolish them altogether15:28
mircea_popescuyou think this be a bad idea ?15:32
mircea_popescucosts stack up, for instance right now, a screen (introductory tool for bouquinism) runs one 1.3mn. that's a decent chunk of change for a game, neh ?15:32
mircea_popescuif a house's 1bn and a castle 25 trn ? what then ?15:32
jurovjust thinking aloud, is it really necessary to think in millions per one tool?15:33
jurovwhile having 4 types of coins of which one is completely useless15:34
mircea_popescuit's not completely useless tho. it's there so you can add and calculate things properyl.15:38
mircea_popescuyes nobody buys 1 cft. but whether cft q 5 is 3 or 4 lbn makes a difference.15:38
mircea_popescu3 or 4 ecu i mean15:38
jurovand i don't readily see how to fix it. maybe sliding all base values by 10 would in fact achieve the same end. but it may be complicated, and what about quality, etc.15:39
mircea_popescuso the last two digits being there mostly for accounting purposes is ok in my eyes.15:39
diana_comanmircea_popescu, 100k for the wm15:41
mircea_popescu100k heard from diana_coman15:41
diana_comanI agree that coppers don't bring you much, but not sure I'd want everything sliding by 10 esp since values of bps for instance are 10% which can mean some coppers in some cases - ofc one doesn't buy 1 bp, but then there has to be some way to take it into account15:43
mircea_popescujurov also consider how things stack. that tool that goes for 1.3mn has a composition. it's made of scaffolding and grubsilk thread. the composition goes all the way down to base units most of which are worth a few dozen coppers each.15:47
mircea_popescuit makes a difference that flotsam is 88 whereas rotten fruit just 80. this is at quality 100, which means the actual value per q point is ~.8 coppers, and the differential between the two 0.08 coppers.15:48
mircea_popescunow, all these values are perhaps things you "don't care about", but they're defined by the game and thus must be accounted for somewhere.15:49
jurovi don't really have a strong opinion.15:50
mircea_popescuyeah but i appreciate the discussion.15:51
jurovit maybe stems from insistence to precisely count tiny items that would be irl counted by kilogram or liter15:51
mircea_popescualso worth considering is - suppose salaries become somehow a thing. if they be paid by the second, for the sake of argument, then paying 1 ecu/s would result in 2.5mn monthly payment for someone who mostly runs it all through. if the copper coin weren't there, the employer would be forced to use 25mn increments per month ?15:52
mircea_popescujurov well yeah but irl benefits from a built-in quantum coprocessor that saves you from having to solve the phi-function.15:52
jurov^ same thing, if you think you need to pay by second instead of minute/hour15:52
diana_comanI would add that in game seconds really count (with the bot)15:53
mircea_popescuguess so.15:53
diana_comanwhile irl I'm not so sure they count the same15:53
mircea_popescuseems a second is a reasonable time unit, but hey.15:53
diana_comanin the end it might stem from the fact that 1 year = 1 week15:53
mircea_popescuirl nobody sells grain by the GRAIN COUNT15:54
mircea_popescubut this mostly because they can't, i guess. and the reason they can't is obviously that reality doesn't db.15:54
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> seems a second is a reasonable time unit, but hey. <- I suppose at some point one can argue the other way around that hey, bot precision is milliseconds and if you run the bot all day and night that DOES make a difference in end output15:55
mircea_popescui guess so.15:55
mircea_popescucrazy complex fucking built tree, thinking about it.15:56
jurovokay. and on the other end of scale issue with input multiplications is that you add just 2-3 more levels of eulora technology usual way and the amount will go to like, 10^15 coppers per unit15:56
mircea_popescurotten fruit actually gets used in worn screens. rf -> dg -> ltf -> acg -> gt -> wos.15:56
jurovi'm looking forward to how is the game to solve this15:57
mircea_popescuhow do you mean ?15:57
jurovsay there will be harvester that will need 999 chetty sticks15:57
mircea_popescuoh15:57
mircea_popescuhehe. i can see it in the end having single items with base values in the trillions.15:58
diana_comanesp the space shuttle to the moon :p15:58
mircea_popescuit all comes from the dedication to "no limits".15:58
mircea_popesculevel till you drop. skill till your fingers bleed. you want to discover the ultimate sword ? ha.15:58
mircea_popescuhave this hammer.15:58
diana_comanthere is something there as to what do you do if you end up with that item at q 600 or whatever15:58
mircea_popescui dunno, you sell it to electron ?15:59
jurovif electron would pay anything for stuff below base quality15:59
diana_comanno, I mean re representation with available coins and this potential trouble15:59
mircea_popescuheh. my bitcent coins atm spell out "1k"16:00
diana_comanthat's a current bug only jurov16:00
mircea_popescuthere is no trouble.16:00
diana_comanah16:00
mircea_popescujurov ironically, that was going to be fixed THE NEXT DAY16:00
mircea_popescuthen chet got sick. and then...16:00
mircea_popescuit's still getting fixed. errant bullshit.16:00
diana_comanI remember I got some weird thing when getting the money from grundin - it did not fit in the window16:00
jurovi see...16:00
mircea_popescuit was just an errror in the daily build, which daily build became a forever build ;/16:01
diana_comanunrelated: 235 digs with a hoe -> 288 cr ffs16:02
mircea_popescuouch.16:02
diana_comanpicking up one rock at a time almost16:02
mircea_popescuwhat q ?16:02
diana_comanyeah, trouble is in ALL this loads of exploring I did, I basically got only about 2-3 times something that was not pretty much in those terms16:02
diana_coman176q16:03
mircea_popescuwell... 73 * 1.76 = 128. if my "3x base" formula holds you're actually turning a profit.16:03
mircea_popescu50ish or so for the lbn, 150 for the hoe, still under 38016:03
diana_comanmhm, lbn but cft?16:06
diana_comanand for that matter ...380?16:07
diana_coman73*1.76*1.25 = 16016:08
diana_coman50 for lbn + 150 for hoe = 20016:08
diana_comanso not sure how profit?16:08
diana_coman(I'm not even going into the part of profit/hour or something)16:09
mircea_popescudiana_coman the way i mine myself is by the rule that if a "base run" (ie, the lowest output) makes up 1/3 of my cost im happy.16:09
mircea_popescufro mwhat i've seen i get back enough in the big hits to make up for it.16:09
diana_comantrouble is I did more mining than you (don't you think?) but I got basically 1 pop on the wpl and ....that's it. only if I go back in the very beginning I guess I might have gotten there another few pops16:10
diana_comanso I just don't see what you are saying as a general rule; it might work for you, but I don't see it working for me16:11
mircea_popescuhmmm16:13
mircea_popescubut... how many ordinaries you got ? remarkables ?16:13
mircea_popescui think remarkable is instapop isn't it ?16:13
diana_comanlet me see: in total from the very beginning - 9 remarkables16:15
diana_comanout of curiosity do you have fewer than that?16:15
mircea_popescui have 616:16
diana_comanhm, would be curious danielpbarron mind telling how many remarkables you have intotal?16:16
mircea_popescuand my gathering is 370 lol16:16
mircea_popescuso i'd say you're ahead for the count ?16:17
diana_comanahead for the count on remarkables as 9 to 6 you mean16:17
diana_comanit would seem so16:17
mircea_popescuwell 450/370 * 6 = 7.316:17
mircea_popescufwtw16:18
diana_comanah; not sure how much that formula is worth16:18
mircea_popescupretty sure that getting from 370 to 450 is less than half the trouble to getting to 37016:18
mircea_popescutho...16:18
mircea_popescumaybe not16:19
mircea_popescuhow was it ?16:19
diana_comanordinaries I'd need to add from logs maybe as obv I built quite a few16:19
diana_comanmhm, there was some area that was easy but I think maybe close to 400-420 or so16:19
diana_comanand then it got again hard16:19
mircea_popescuof course... four of my remarkables are basic, while two are forestry. and i would say i did easily 10x more basics than i did lumberjacking.16:20
mircea_popescuactually... no, tpt and sm. one's ... MINING even. which i almost never did do.16:21
diana_comanwell, weirdly enough I do NOT have any grocery remarkable16:21
diana_coman6 basics, 2 mining and 1 lj16:22
diana_comanfor the lolz16:22
mircea_popesculol.16:22
diana_comanoh mircea_popescu I have the 15 molluscs + 7tlc + 14sg I owed you for the screens, let me know when you want them16:33
mircea_popescunow works16:33
mircea_popescudo you also want the last one ?16:33
diana_comanthen I should better go and get another 15 molluscs, lol16:33
mircea_popescuentirely up to you.16:33
diana_comanif ok, I'd rather settle now with the molluscs and stuff as it might take a while to get the rest16:38
diana_comanftr it was 1 cs miss, then 1 mollusc/stick small then 1 bloody ordinary which takes 2 (TWO) slithy tove16:38
diana_comanmircea_popescu, trade?16:38
mircea_popescuyep16:38
mircea_popescuty16:39
mircea_popescu2st is pretty bad, 25k or what ? 30 ?16:39
diana_comankind of 30k17:40
mircea_popescuso in the end more like what, 280k total ? 300 ?17:44
* danielpbarron bids 105k for the shrooms18:50
mircea_popescu105k heard for 55 WM q 19919:10
jurovso i turned hoes + cft bought for 6M into...maybe 3.5M worth of sm and bbb. double yay19:30
mircea_popescuwhat q ?19:31
jurovsince there are no sunday events, i'm going to sell it here, 24hour auction:19:32
jurov1. 17121 spicy moss q 55: price 2.81M19:32
jurov2. 2945 gitterbeans q 58: price 615k19:33
jurovany offers?19:33
jurov*bitterbeans19:33
mircea_popescu2.82 on the sm actually. gitterbeans lol. 625k on the bbb.19:33
mircea_popescudo you have mining skill ? or farming ?19:34
jurov2.82 on sm heard, 625k on the bbb package so far, you can auction each separately if you want19:35
jurovmircea_popescu: neither19:35
mircea_popescumaybe has something to do with it.19:35
jurovwell i have sortage but explicitly avoided that stuff, as i get ~q 100 on it and corresponding lower count19:36
mircea_popescutry one thing if you're curious : throw a few chetty sticks, see if you get smalls or ordinaries.19:36
jurovwe tried with korgan, only ordinaries19:36
mircea_popescuo.O19:36
mircea_popescugod i can't fucking wait to mine already.19:36
mircea_popescuo wait, is this the cft you paid like 200% on ?19:38
jurovyes, and the hoes likewise19:38
mircea_popescuwelll....19:38
mircea_popescuso you actually would have made 20% profit, if you bought the supplies at 100% ?19:39
jurovif anyone sold them at such price19:39
mircea_popescutell you what, if you undertake a chunk of shaped slag manufacturing, i'm willing to sell you back the produced tools at 125%.19:40
jurovokay19:40
jurovand if you remember i was lucky and got 7k sm extra. otherwise it would be dismal.19:41
mircea_popescumyeah.19:42
mircea_popescuwell this is kinda how it works out, if large finds don't save you, you're fucked.19:42
mircea_popescuanyway, the issue with mining is iffy - these things you dug up are in the 200ish base value range. i imagine you miss a lot more than you miss stuff like grass or such. then again, as you say, higher q lower count.19:43
jurovif i mine grass at q ~100 that'd be outright bad, so i went for rarer stuff19:48
mircea_popescuthat all depends. you now have ~1.7mn worth of stuff which sells for ~3.45 mn. had you got 3mn worth of grass even at q 100 it'd have sold for 3.75mn, ie better off.19:49
jurovoh, how much for 34 sortage stones? foxy said maybe upgrading my sortage to 100 would move me closer into quality miner category19:49
mircea_popescuwhat sortage stones ?19:49
jurovthe item that gains a level in sortage, how much do you sell them for?19:50
diana_comanjurov, if you tinker stuff, your sortage increases too19:50
mircea_popescuuh. i think i can write books, but i don't recall right off what i ask for them19:50
mircea_popescuif you mean the non-book item, i would imagine you're much better off selling it to sacrificers.19:50
jurovdiana_coman: iirc not very much doing slag19:51
diana_comanso do ltf19:51
diana_comanor cc19:51
diana_comancordage19:51
mircea_popescuuh. shaped slag is ~8k. lft is ~4k. should be 2x19:51
mircea_popescuisn't it 2x ?19:51
diana_comanI think he meant basic slag, no?19:51
jurovi dunno19:52
mircea_popescuoh. maybe. but i was talking shaped.19:52
mircea_popescuyeah plain slag is only 1/7 ltf or so.19:52
mircea_popescu1/6*19:52
jurovi'll make the shaped stuff in any case, tell me when ready19:53
mircea_popescuprolly some point during weekend.19:54
mircea_popescuhow many digs would you say you missed jurov ? 1 in 3 ? 50-50 ? 2 in 3 ?19:56
jurovmore like 2 in 319:56
mircea_popescuthen i would definitely give basics a try.19:56
mircea_popescuif you miss half as much, the above described scenario is quite possible.19:57
mircea_popescutry something cheaper , you know, boulders, grass, sb.19:57
jurovwith grass it was obvious the output is less than input19:57
mircea_popescuoh it was ?19:57
diana_comanjurov, mircea's theory is that you just need to hold on long enough until it pops and overall gets you back in the green19:58
diana_comanand according to same theory, if you make 1/3 of the cost on a bad run19:58
diana_comanthan you are still good to go overall19:58
mircea_popescuwell, i'm also curious what his results are like.19:58
diana_comanonly if you make less than that you are truly in trouble19:59
mircea_popescure that theory : i dun know anyone with q < 100 ever seriously tested it.19:59
mircea_popescuit worked fine for me, but i measured between q 300 and 250ish. you disagreed, for all i know it doesn't even hold at 15019:59
diana_comanwell, since they tend to get ordinaries only kind of hard19:59
mircea_popescubut mining grass has been maybe my best paying thing so far.20:00
jurovstill a hoe left, will do a run on grass20:00
mircea_popescui think i dug up ~200k of the stuff, and i'm about 30-40% over par on it altogether.20:01
mircea_popescuby comparison stuff like digging up snails... well... more like -5% i'd say. of course now i have a ton of snails.20:01
diana_coman-5% is not even that bad20:02
diana_comanmaybe in my case it's the mapping thing that messes up entirely; MAYBE20:02
* diana_coman the ever optimist for some unknown reason20:02
mircea_popescuthe only thing i lost massively on was wm.20:02
mircea_popescuheck, watch rare q 200 stuff not even sell 125% o.O20:02
diana_comanwhat?20:03
diana_comannot to remind you that you bought that wpl at 125% in a kind of "auction" where nobody wanted it for some reason20:03
diana_comanwpl at 19520:03
diana_coman195q20:03
mircea_popescuyeh. these auctions!20:04
mircea_popescubut still, wm is closer to md than to wpl20:04
* diana_coman has the feeling she missed something in the logs; brb20:05
diana_comanaha, lol; mircea_popescu 115k for the wm20:06
jurovsoo..10 cdg smalls fo far, ate 70 cft q 111, guess how much cdg q 105 out?20:08
jurov98. Fukcing Ninety Eight.20:09
jurovwith sm/bbb when i found a claim, i did get at least something resembling input value20:11
jurovnot so with cdg20:11
diana_comanjurov, I guess it depends if you buy the idea of "gotta do some 10 days mining for a huge pop that will get me into positive" or not20:12
jurovas you can see obviously not20:13
jurovat least not with such poor baseline20:14
*** Joins: Birdman (~birdman@32.212.87.18)20:16
Birdmanmircea_popescu ill buy the clogs20:16
jurovhi Birdman I'm auctioning sm and bbb, see logs20:17
diana_comanwhat tool did you use jurov ?20:18
jurovimp hoe. but i excluded it from this cdg computation20:18
Birdmanare you jurov?20:18
diana_comanouch20:18
jurovBirdman: yes20:19
* danielpbarron bids 121k on the shrooms20:19
Birdmanwell how much and what q?20:19
diana_coman125k for the wm20:19
diana_comanjurov, I wonder whether you'd get any different on my claims, hmm20:20
danielpbarron132k for the wm20:20
Birdmanre bms i think i need certain ingreds for those that i dont have, not to mention tool kits which my main focus is using to get shredding bps20:20
jurovBirdman: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-01-14.log.html#t19:32:0920:21
lobbesbotTitle: #Eulora log for Thursday, 2016-01-14 (at logs.minigame.bz)20:21
diana_coman136k on the wm20:21
danielpbarron143k20:24
Birdmanah sorry, i skipped that chunk of log somehow20:24
BirdmanI'm all set on those, having stock of high q for both right now20:24
diana_comanI'm out20:24
Birdmanif you're trying to make money mining just do the grass man, decent output and your hit rate should be near 80% for smalls on grass20:25
Birdmannot to mention you're making q55, so if you have tinkering higher than that you can make your own cft and over craft your own claims20:25
Birdmanmight not be the fastest, but undoubtedly the cheapest way20:25
jurovBirdman I DO NOT GET DECENT OUTPUT ON GRASS20:26
jurovjust read the logs20:26
BirdmanI mean relatively.20:26
juroveven relatively20:26
Birdmanyou will get more from grass than most any rare resources20:26
jurovnope20:26
jurovit's a wate of cft20:26
jurov*waste20:27
jurovi'm better off reselling cft directly20:27
BirdmanSo you get the same amount of the grass worth 70 base value that you do for sm at ~150 or whatever it is20:27
danielpbarronit is a waste20:27
jurovand i don't get q 55 grass, either, but 10520:27
Birdmanwhile people are buying qi items you probably shouldnt have sortage unless you're trying to be top tier with it20:28
Birdmanotherwise you're just killing your output for reason20:28
Birdmanno reason* building might not be the best thing for you20:28
danielpbarrontoo late for him on that one20:28
Birdmanyeah20:28
danielpbarronmight as well rank it up20:28
jurovso i mined something where sortage did not apply instead20:28
danielpbarronthat's not a good plan20:29
Birdmanwhere does it not apply?20:29
jurovand i'm waiting on mircea_popescu's say on sortage books, he lists them for 100k20:29
jurovBirdman: on groceries and mining20:30
diana_comanand on lumberjack for that matter20:31
juroveh you all, nothing is a good plan, don't do this, don't do that20:31
Birdmanoh so sortage is to basics as lj is to lumber etc20:31
Birdmanyou aren't alone20:31
Birdmani screwed myself out of insane profits too by lveling building20:31
danielpbarronif you get ordinaries every time with sticks i may have work for you20:32
Birdmanwith only getting ords i could have been my own noob miner and making tons20:32
mircea_popescujurov i can prolly make some yes.20:34
mircea_popescuyou in a hurry ?20:34
jurovno20:34
mircea_popescui have 3 made, and can have more in a week. how many would oyu like ?20:36
Birdmani would buy bouq skill books up to 100, seems to be the cheaper way to level20:39
jurov36 :)20:39
jurovno 26, fu i can't count20:41
jurov26 sortage books20:42
mircea_popescuok tell you waht, when i give you materials fore shaped slags ima also have 26 books for you. that work ?20:44
jurovyep20:44
mircea_popescuthese are dismal scribblings, you understand ?20:44
mircea_popescuBirdman how many is that ?20:45
jurovyes only to level 100. any other limitation?20:45
diana_comanjurov, what's your building level?20:45
mircea_popescunot that i know of jurov20:45
jurovbuilding 11620:45
diana_comanhm, I don't know how much exactly is that holding you back too20:46
diana_comanso you get 55 on spicy moss and the like, right?20:46
jurovrecently it went to 6020:47
diana_comanaha. so 60 due to building rank only and then 105 on basics due to some 74 sortage rank20:47
jurovyes20:47
diana_comanso you'd expect to get about 125-130 on basics if you get sortage to 100?20:48
jurovno, ~12020:48
jurovjust a guess20:48
diana_comansounds more likely20:48
diana_comanat 120q it should give some decent overcraft for someone with low tink level20:49
mircea_popescuwell, if he also crafts the slags he might pump it even higher.20:50
diana_comantrue20:50
mircea_popescuand maybe i get sortage to 400 by then20:50
diana_comanwell what, I have building at 400 for ages :p20:50
mircea_popescugod knows i'm trying.20:50
diana_comanplus the rastrums still work out at some huge price20:50
mircea_popescuah there is that huh.20:50
mircea_popescumaybe there should be a s.mg auction of a bunch of rastrums.20:51
diana_comanugh, so that lapidary is truly and finally useless20:51
mircea_popescutho not terribly fair yeah.20:51
mircea_popescustrike that idea.20:51
mircea_popescuhonestly... there was a pile of artwork on the cusp of being imported, and all sorts of stuff including early jewelry to be added and such. was supposed to be a pre-xmas update, in our plans.20:52
mircea_popescuima have to fix this somehow.20:52
diana_comanI'm quite useless with the graphics/artwork part but I'd gladly help if I can20:53
mircea_popescuoh, it was all made, just the getting it lined up in the game.20:54
mircea_popescuincluding a pretty cool enemy guy and all sorts of things, thousands of various models etc.20:55
Birdmanmircea_popescu 3720:59
mircea_popescui can prolly make you 37, yeah. ima want them paid upfront tho.21:00
Birdmanyes of course21:01
mircea_popescuaite, at your leisure.21:01
BirdmanI'm not one to incurr debt normally21:01
mircea_popescuima book a bookbaking session after this dg and before i start on io21:01
mircea_popescui mean upfront ie, before i start making them. they pretty much will wipe out my remaining samovars.21:01
Birdmanah, still no problem21:01
diana_comancurious now if sortage actually counts also for tinkering q because (?) it gets increased by tinkering21:02
mircea_popescudiana_coman all this book buying will offer some interesting datapoints as a byproduct.21:02
diana_comanthen it would follow that somehow farming also counts for basics because it gets increased by...building?21:03
diana_comanweird21:03
diana_comanwell, if any data is made public there21:04
Birdmananyone interested in q140 cft?21:12
Birdmanhave a stack i'm willing to let go for 3.5mn21:12
mircea_popescusure, how much ?21:12
mircea_popescustack = 9999 ?21:13
Birdmanyeah21:13
mircea_popescui'd pay 3.15 on it.21:13
Birdmani'll think it over21:14
mircea_popescumebbe jurov has 7mn loose :D21:15
Birdmanim in the market for any shaped slags also, preferably high q21:15
mircea_popescuyou got them 3.7mn for teh books ?21:15
BirdmanTrying to monetize some stuff as we speak21:15
Birdmanmight be a bit before i can get it together21:16
mircea_popescuaok21:16
mircea_popescuironically, i'm not actually crafting as fast as orders come in o.O21:17
diana_comanlol, taking preorders?21:17
Birdmanto be expected being the best in a line21:17
diana_comanmircea_popescu, I thought that is the thing really: normally it shouldn't be that one crafter (or builder for that matter) is enough21:18
mircea_popescuwell this one's iffy cuz if i boil the brews/pulp to make 36 more books ima be without samovars.21:18
mircea_popescudiana_coman yeah. but for a long while ... it was.21:18
mircea_popescupart of what's going on is that for a long time keeping stocks in the 100s seemed good enough for me. but now i'm kicking myself for not having made stocks in the 10s of k's back when i had q 20021:19
mircea_popescuand so im making them now.21:20
mircea_popescuwhich... takes a while lol. kinda curious how long this 20k dg will hold me, for instance.21:20
diana_comanaha21:21
Birdmanwoo i can storage while crafting.. sometimes21:22
mircea_popescujudging by how 20k cft went practically in a day tho...21:22
diana_comanI think I'll take some more dg too for that matter, lol21:22
diana_comanbut it can wait, no rush21:23
BirdmanSo why is the mcreed kilt a pun?21:27
*** Joins: Swerg (52f7e318@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.247.227.24)21:50
BirdmanHello Swerg are you a new player?21:50
SwergHello,  yes21:50
diana_comanhello Swerg, welcome21:51
BirdmanAh welcome aboard21:51
Swergthanks21:51
diana_comando you have an account already?21:51
mircea_popescuhey, how did you find it ?21:51
Swergno account yet. I don't remember how I found you. I'm a player of Entropia.21:53
mircea_popescuah cool.21:54
mircea_popescuso get yourself in the wot and ima make you an account.21:55
Birdmandanielpbarron do you have extra pss small enums or wwb?21:58
mircea_popescuSwerg do you know how to do that ?22:00
danielpbarronextra smalls? not really22:01
Birdmanit is incredibly hard to find them on pss22:01
Birdmanand i have so many wwb tinies it will be a crazy project to get the smalls i need22:01
Birdmansome 500 wwb smalls needed22:02
diana_comando you get only smalls on wwb too, Birdman ?22:02
Birdmanyeah22:02
mircea_popescuso then ?22:02
diana_coman^^22:03
Birdmanhit rates aren't too great22:03
Birdmanand im doing this all manually guys22:03
diana_comanwell...why? lol22:03
mircea_popescuamconfused.22:03
diana_comanhe doesn't use the bot, nor some macro for some reason22:03
Swergno...22:04
BirdmanHow do i use the bot?22:04
danielpbarronyou don't have the bot!22:04
mircea_popescuSwerg http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets << see the part about registering for the wot.22:05
lobbesbotTitle: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] (at wiki.bitcoin-assets.com)22:05
mircea_popescuyou'll need a pgp signature.22:05
BirdmanThat was my impression too22:06
Birdmanand for that matter the macro doesnt work well with keyboard comands22:08
mircea_popescuso download it.22:08
diana_comanahhh, he's on windows22:08
mircea_popescuoh, using binary ?22:09
Birdmanyes22:09
mircea_popescuah then you can't quite use it.22:09
*** Quits: Swerg (52f7e318@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.247.227.24) (Quit: Page closed)22:10
diana_comanI guess jurov will make some new release at some point including the bot too22:10
diana_comanhmmm, is that the wot-effect ?22:10
mircea_popesculol22:11
mircea_popescuyou suppose it was something like "fuck this crazy shit" ?22:14
mircea_popescupossible.22:14
BirdmanWas he not in -assets before this?22:14
diana_comanfor the time being it quite looks like that to me; I wouldn't mind at all being wrong on this though22:15
mircea_popescunot afaik22:15
Birdmanah finally done with the ltf22:23
Birdmanthink im just gonna sell these as is and start making ppb22:23
danielpbarroni will buy22:26
Birdmanyes but will you buy at near or over bv @ 100q?22:26
BirdmanAlso you should make me a fast order of sharp slags say 50 of them so i can go noob mine some sb ords22:27
danielpbarroni have that many ready22:27
Birdmanreally now, how many do you have i can buy22:28
danielpbarronah whoops, the are low q22:28
Birdmandiana_coman i have 254 cs at 216q22:29
danielpbarronyeah i would also like high q shaped slags; been asking for that one for a while now22:29
diana_comankk Birdman, give me 2 min to finish craft22:29
Birdmanno problem, danielpbarron make me some seeing as your tinker q is high enough for me?22:29
danielpbarroni don't want to make those unless i have low q slag and oil22:30
danielpbarronunless you want to pay close to 2x22:30
Birdmani guess i could swing close to 200%22:31
diana_comanBirdman, trade me22:31
mircea_popescuo.O22:31
mircea_popescui got 4 sharp slags q 202 you can have for that much ? :D22:31
mircea_popescui was saving them for a weddingt or something.22:32
Birdmanwell what is close to 200% danielpbarron22:32
diana_comanBirdman, accept22:33
Birdmanty22:33
mircea_popescuif only i had the fucking sense to make 5k  of em ;/22:33
diana_comannp, thanks22:33
diana_coman50k mircea_popescu22:33
mircea_popescu?22:34
diana_comanto make 50k, not only 5k22:34
diana_comanlol22:34
mircea_popesculol. yeah.22:34
BirdmanThinking making ppb is the best use of my tinkering right now seeing as ill sell for ~95% bv and i can get a noob to spit out thousands from an ord22:37
Birdmani had gotten 12k from one myself at q23, at q7 who knows22:37
BirdmanAlso interestingly enough, a bunch of my lotus ords are still there and locked...22:38
diana_comandid you give them to wyrd?22:39
Birdmanyeah and i thought he gave me results days ago22:39
diana_comanhe used to lock the ords back as he didn't know that they are single-use22:39
diana_comanso prolly he used them but still locked them up afterwards22:39
Birdmanwho knows, by the math i could do without being present it seemed the numbers matched up22:39
Birdmani dont suspect they aren't built22:39
Birdmanthe tiny bbb enum i dropped there a week or so ago is still there22:42
danielpbarronthey are mine22:44
danielpbarroni need high q beetles22:44
Birdmanwhat the enum next to the lh? i thought i dropped that22:44
* Birdman has many beetle ords22:45
danielpbarronthe lh ords are mine22:47
Birdmansays i made them22:47
Birdmanand i dont recall selling you any22:47
diana_comandanielpbarron, I can let go of 50 md at 117q for 3k each22:49
jurovBirdman i do have windows binary with bot, want to test it?22:49
BirdmanYes22:50
jurovok, mmnt22:50
jurovsha512: 2c029ed7f62d6c8d95f5448b3db515d17991d5f85c34a9aaf4aa61e9325aa3e2334457fea1b1093b14b27f1f7b3c088470b3c8e5ad511c69e8f489b924e59fa222:57
jurovhttp://minigame.bz/jurov/psclient_0_1_1_foxybot_1_3.exe22:57
jurovit's vanilla foxybot with my little "improvement" that if it gets overweight while exploring, it /drops everything mined so far and goes on22:59
jurovreplace psclient.exe with this22:59
mircea_popescuisn't that dangerous ?22:59
jurovyes, but it must be checked every half hour anyway23:00
diana_comanI was experimenting a bit with putting things in a claim and locking it rather, but got sidetracked, I guess it would make a good addition to next release23:00
diana_comanjurov, why check every half hour?23:00
jurovfor training and like23:00
diana_comanahh23:00
danielpbarrondiana_coman, i'll take em23:00
jurovi mean user must look at it23:00
diana_comankk danielpbarron , 3 minutes to finish craft23:00
danielpbarronlol jurov wtf23:01
diana_comanjurov, I leave it over night so ~ 8 hours23:01
danielpbarronyour fix is to drop everything??23:01
diana_comanbut I suppose it takes ages for me to level now23:01
danielpbarronit could at least put the overweight stuff in the latest claim and lock it23:01
danielpbarronshesh23:01
jurovdiana_coman: it's not for you23:01
jurov:D23:01
Birdmanill just not over cragy23:01
Birdmancraft*23:01
diana_comanheh jurov , no, I meant re "it has to be checked every half hour"23:02
danielpbarrondiana_coman> danielpbarron, I can let go of 50 md at 117q for 3k each << sold.23:02
diana_comankk danielpbarron , just wait 2 minutes to finish this craft, got that23:02
jurovBirdman: also, mining existing claims is not implemented23:03
*** Quits: gernika (~awt@unaffiliated/gernika) (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)23:03
jurovdiana_coman: and I also stash keys, another reason to check often23:04
diana_comanahhh, that would be indeed23:04
mircea_popescuif only i needed to train every half hour.23:05
jurovme not anymore, it's several hours already, but i prefer to oversee it anyway, it has problems if CPU is too busy, network lag, etc.23:07
Birdmanafter replacing says it cant run because crystalspace-2.1-vc10.dll is missing23:07
diana_comandanielpbarron, trade23:07
jurovBirdman: do you run it with the .bat?23:08
jurovit won't run directly23:08
Birdmanduh, no23:08
diana_comanenjoy your beetles danielpbarron23:09
danielpbarronthanks23:09
mircea_popescui read "beatles"23:09
Birdmancool, so is there any instructions that come with the bot?23:09
diana_comanahaha, dung beatles23:09
jurovBirdman: just run /bot23:10
jurovfor help23:10
diana_comanBirdman, http://www.dianacoman.com/foxybots-eulora/23:10
diana_comanbut for that matter, there is even a help entry for it, if only read, lol23:11
BirdmanFoxy's bot NOT foudn! Widget loading error perhaps?23:11
diana_comanthat sounds like the xml is botched or something23:12
diana_comanBirdman, do you have on screen a new window with title Foxy's Bot?23:12
BirdmanNo23:12
diana_comanaha. so widget loading error indeed23:13
jurovoh i should upload everything23:13
jurovBirdman sorry either you follow foxy's instructions to update files or wait till i release it properly (not today)23:15
BirdmanNo problem23:16
BirdmanI suppose i'd buy sharp slags at 185%23:44
Birdmanalso, mircea_popescu have you noticed any changes in tinker q as i've been leveling up?23:45
danielpbarronhow many?23:52
Birdmanat the least 1223:52
Birdmanbut i'd like more to over craft some tools23:53
Birdman200 would do me well23:53

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