#Eulora log for Wednesday, 2015-08-12

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*** Quits: Adlai (~Adlai@bzq-79-180-179-78.red.bezeqint.net) (Quit: Insufficient entropy for original quit message)00:16
*** Joins: Adlai (~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai)00:16
danielpbarronmircea_popescu, got any threads for sale?02:03
mircea_popescui do. how many'd you like ?02:03
danielpbarron1k02:03
mircea_popescui might have that many, lemme check.02:03
mircea_popescup02:12
danielpbarroncrashed!04:09
*** Joins: Birdman (20d45712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.32.212.87.18)04:09
danielpbarronchetty, mircea_popescu ^04:09
danielpbarronglad i didn't drop my altar yet04:10
danielpbarronsucks for Birdman04:10
Birdmani got time to wait04:10
Birdmanjust let me know when its up04:10
Birdmanwhy i paid over a million for 500 of those drafts is beyond me now04:11
Birdmanwhen i generated thousands04:11
danielpbarroni'd pay a million for 1k04:12
Birdmanmight not be worth it04:12
Birdmanare there other drafts in existence?04:12
danielpbarronyou got em all04:12
danielpbarroni would not be buying them to use04:13
Birdman>:)04:13
Birdmanyou'd generate loot from them04:13
danielpbarronno i'd just hold them04:13
Birdmangpg contract or gtfo04:14
danielpbarrona non compete thing?04:14
Birdmanwell, if i have them all, if i let any out, there could be more generated04:15
Birdmanso, id really only be putting a strangle on your sacrifice skill04:15
Birdmanbut, they all level the bouq04:15
Birdmanso im not sure what else is around that can level that04:16
danielpbarroni'm still gonna bring enumerations to you04:16
Birdmanill make your stuff04:16
Birdmanjust dont need any floating around04:16
danielpbarroni just want a back up in case you fall off the face of the earth04:16
danielpbarronor if you run out somehow04:16
Birdmanif i die, come to my house and its in a note on my desktop04:16
Birdmanthey will be safe04:17
danielpbarronlol i'm never mining a small or a tiny again04:20
danielpbarronis that what all the drafts want?04:21
danielpbarroni'll probably keep mining small basic harvestables04:22
danielpbarronbut i don't have an advantage mining the less common stuff04:22
Birdmanno not all enums04:24
danielpbarronoh04:24
danielpbarronwell i know the more advanced ones need velum04:24
danielpbarroni made some velum if you need that04:24
Birdmanand the higher quality i start with the better for your skill04:24
Birdmanyes04:24
Birdmanvellum and something in a bottle04:24
Birdmanforget what04:24
danielpbarrongonna need some clovers04:25
danielpbarronleaky treebark flask04:25
Birdmanno04:25
danielpbarrongin04:25
Birdmannope04:25
danielpbarronbeetlebrew04:25
Birdmanthat mightve been it04:25
danielpbarronthese are all things you will want to buy in large quantities04:25
danielpbarronright now clovers is the "bottle neck"04:25
Birdmanyes04:25
danielpbarroni should be getting some clovers soon04:25
danielpbarronif these leather supplications are anythign like the berries ones04:26
danielpbarronand if not, we gotta make berries next04:26
danielpbarronthose give me clovers as loot, and clovers are used to make the gin that makes your velum04:26
danielpbarroni'll be able to have like a real legit store soon04:27
Birdmannice04:27
danielpbarronhttp://danielpbarron.com/languages.txt04:31
*** Joins: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)04:31
diana_comanmorning04:31
danielpbarronhello04:34
diana_comanBirdmanare there other drafts in existence? << do you mean those that you can get from bouq?04:35
diana_comanif yes, then I still have some and in any case, they can still be obtained04:35
danielpbarronhe means the new ones04:36
diana_comanleather or something else?04:36
danielpbarronleather and other ones we didn't get before04:36
diana_comanleather can still be gotten04:36
danielpbarronhow's that?04:37
diana_comanlol, it comes out of bouq too04:37
danielpbarronso you had some of these already?04:37
danielpbarronor you can now make them?04:37
diana_comannot leather no, as I kept getting other stuff and then I just didn't get around to do any more bouq04:37
danielpbarronapparently it wasn't gettable04:38
diana_comanwell yes, it wasn't gettable in the beginning I gathered?04:38
diana_comanbut then it was fixed?04:38
diana_comanand oh, Birdman, if you need tiny+small enums I have some stashes in storage and I'll sell them np04:39
Birdmani will buy them all04:39
danielpbarrongoes without saying i'll buy all the supplications you make04:39
Birdmanmhm04:39
Birdmanwanna join and play 20 chep table04:40
danielpbarroni'll play poker when it's in eulora04:40
Birdmanwas wront tab lol04:41
diana_comanwow, if anyone is curious, this must be the longest dry xplore run I've ever seen, lol: so for about 4 hrs, about 4 explore/min and got...nothing04:41
diana_comanloool04:41
diana_comanthere is some throwing a die so far only, lol04:41
danielpbarronwhat's nothing? no ordinaries?04:41
diana_comanno, nothing as in nada04:41
diana_coman(mining all the time at shrooms)04:41
danielpbarronoh04:42
diana_comanotherwise I got about 30 shrooms at least (30 enums) between 0am and 2:30am04:43
diana_comanso before that awful dry spell04:43
diana_comanso 2.5 hours in which I got 30 shrooms and then 4 hours in which I just spend the tools :)))04:44
Birdmangained exp04:44
diana_coman(this was mining with cruddy hoes from the merchant, if anyone is curious04:44
diana_coman)04:44
danielpbarronah04:44
diana_comanwell yes, but so far the bot doesn't train that too, as well, not yet that bright04:45
diana_comanquite curious in fact whether I missed now at least one level or not, lol04:45
diana_coman(it started freshly trained)04:45
Birdmanahh so lots of waste04:45
danielpbarroni don't even need a bot to mine stuff anymore04:45
diana_comandon't know but in any case, better to leave it on04:45
danielpbarroni just need a bot that's smart enough to lock and save the key for ordinary and remarkable04:45
diana_comanoh, how is that danielpbarron?04:45
danielpbarronand leave all tiny and small claims unmined04:45
diana_comanthat it does surely04:45
diana_comanwhy wouldn't you mine those?04:46
diana_comanI don't get it really04:46
danielpbarronrather have the enumerations04:46
diana_comanesp the tiny04:46
diana_comanoh04:46
danielpbarronespecially the small!04:46
diana_comando they pay that well ?04:46
diana_comanI can get the bot to make tiny enums04:46
diana_comanlike for flotsam and basic stuff04:46
diana_comanfor which I don't have a premium04:46
diana_comanI get lots of them due to high gathering level04:47
danielpbarronfor me i'd actually mine those ones04:47
danielpbarronbut that's because of sortage04:47
diana_comanbut I don't want to mine them due to no storage04:47
danielpbarroni'd not mine the tiny and small everything else04:47
diana_comanoh, so quite complementary to what I'd do, lol04:47
diana_comanso let me know if you actually need tiny or small enums for basic things04:48
danielpbarroni'll buy your basic harvestable ordinary and remarkable claims04:48
diana_coman(I still mine the non-basic since I get good quality and it is overall clearly net positive)04:48
diana_comanmhm, how much?04:48
danielpbarroni want enums that can be used to make supplications (ask birdman which)04:48
Birdmanor just sell them all to me04:48
diana_coman(not so sure I'd sell ordinary and remarkable, but will think about it)04:48
diana_comanso tell me Birdman, what do you pay for each? (tiny basic, tiny rare, small basic, small rare etc)04:49
danielpbarroni only want the basic harvestable claims04:49
Birdmani pay a supplication, per ingredients04:49
diana_coman? I don't follow04:50
Birdmanim not sure what they would be worth really04:50
Birdmandan gives ingredients, i give him the product04:50
Birdmani profit in loot and exp04:50
diana_comanoh04:50
danielpbarron3 small + 17 tiny = 1 supplication04:50
danielpbarronin the case of leather04:50
diana_comanI'd give that a go04:50
Birdmanawesome04:50
diana_comandoes it matter what kind of enums?04:50
Birdmanalthough not sure what you'd do with them04:50
danielpbarron1 supplication wants 3 leather and 1 wine04:50
Birdmanyes04:50
Birdmanspecific to whichever draft04:51
danielpbarronsell them to me that's what04:51
Birdmanand some drafts dont even use enums04:51
diana_comanso what kind of enums do you need, lol?04:51
diana_comanas if I sell you some that don't match a draft then what do I get in return? lol04:51
Birdmani could give you a more complete answer when server is back up04:51
danielpbarronand once i figure out what each one sacrifices to, i'll probably have a similar deal04:51
diana_comancool04:51
danielpbarronbring me supplication + ingredients and get whatever results04:51
Birdmanbut right now 3 small leathers and 17 tiny leathers04:51
diana_comanthis was my test run for bot v0.00000001 really, lol04:51
diana_comanand in terms of "up and running doing its thing"04:52
diana_comanit worked splendidly really04:52
diana_comanI prolly even have that in storage allready04:52
danielpbarronand by whatever results i mean the thing that gets created in the container (not the extra loot)04:52
diana_comandanielpbarron you said something about a shop coming soon; what'd you sell?04:53
*** Joins: Birdman_ (20d45712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.32.212.87.18)04:53
danielpbarronclovers soon hopefully04:53
diana_comanoh, sounds great04:53
danielpbarronand probably lots of other stuff people want04:54
diana_comanatm I need to get about 100 shrooms at least04:54
diana_comanto finish all the oil for mp04:54
diana_comanbut then the very next thing is to start the bot explore the map quite systematically04:54
Birdman_wonder what the goal is04:55
danielpbarroni have a gather macro that does a grid04:55
diana_coman(on this run I kept it tethered to the wm spot as that's what I needed)04:55
Birdman_to get off the island04:55
diana_comanto colonise the moon Birdman! :)))04:55
danielpbarrontrue crypto spirit04:55
Birdman_well, i assume the entire game wont be only that island and the moon lol04:55
*** Quits: Birdman (20d45712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.32.212.87.18) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)04:56
diana_comanwhat distance does that grid cover, danielpbarron?04:56
danielpbarroni have most of the island mapped out in my mind now04:56
diana_comanso have you found the clovers and the harlots etc?04:56
danielpbarroni think i made it go 10 or 12 /explores forward and then sidesteps to a new row04:56
danielpbarronno04:56
diana_comanuhm so then the map is not really complete?04:57
danielpbarronby mapped out i mean that i know the landmarks and how to walk to places without getting lost04:57
diana_comanor do you mean that all of them are really in the part you don't have mapped so far?04:57
diana_comanoh, of course04:57
diana_comanlol04:57
diana_comanthing is: programmatically, movement is not that precise really, due to how it's done04:57
danielpbarronmm harlots i would like to get those04:57
danielpbarronthey make ordinary grass cliams04:58
diana_comandanielpbarron well, I did auction some of them a few days ago, didn't I?04:58
diana_comanI think you left them to mp, lol04:58
danielpbarroni want a lot of them04:58
diana_coman(he prolly bought them for the same reason)04:58
danielpbarroni don't want a tiny amount for a crazy price04:58
diana_comanwell, then wish good luck to the bot, lol04:59
danielpbarrondeafeats purpose of mining the claim04:59
diana_comanmhm04:59
danielpbarronwhen i can just save it for the day that harlots are common to find04:59
diana_comanif you get like 1000k of high q grass out of it, I don't think it defeats any purpose, but anyway04:59
danielpbarroni have gotten that much out of small claims04:59
diana_comansure, it depends on whether you need that grass now or not,lol04:59
danielpbarroni just like grass because i have sortage05:00
diana_comanoh, I see05:00
danielpbarronit's not a "need"05:00
diana_comanif harlots are find, they will surely drop in price, of course05:00
diana_comanbtw, anyone needs dead molluscs?05:01
danielpbarronused in ordinary moss05:01
danielpbarronbut i don't want to mine moss05:02
danielpbarronalthough i do have 1 ordinary moss claim05:02
diana_comanordinary moss uses 2 leaf clover too05:02
danielpbarronmaybe you want to buy05:02
diana_comanunfortunately05:02
diana_comanoh danielpbarron tell you what05:02
danielpbarronor i would trade for ordinary claim of a basic harvestable05:02
diana_comanwe might be able to exchange ordinary claims05:02
danielpbarron:D05:02
diana_comanwill give you one for grass05:02
diana_comanand you give me one for moss05:02
danielpbarrongrass or flotsam or anything in that tab05:02
diana_comandid that with mp earlier but he actually also mined the flotsam for me05:03
diana_comanmhm05:03
danielpbarroncrumbly rock perhaps05:03
diana_comanahahahah lol05:03
diana_comancrumbly rock has yet to be found as far as I know05:03
danielpbarronglad that one is "basic harvestable"05:03
diana_comanyeah, there are really much more basic harvestables, lol05:03
danielpbarronsortage seems to effect all of those05:03
danielpbarroni mine quality 275 basic harvestables05:03
diana_comanyes, it does, didn't I say that like 10 times at least and from the very start?05:04
diana_comanlol05:04
diana_comanmp does about 33005:04
diana_comanin any case: I'd give you an ord basic for an ord rare in return05:05
diana_comanjust need atm to see which, since for moss I need 2 leaf clovers too05:05
diana_comanand so right now it doesn't make sense to buy any really, until tlc is either found or you sell some05:05
diana_coman(I still have my own ord moss enums that I can't mine due to same bottleneck)05:06
diana_comando you have any other rare ordinary?05:07
diana_comanI think wpl also requires tlc05:07
danielpbarroni have a remarkable something05:07
diana_comanso dunno, maybe tpt or bbb05:07
danielpbarronand i should probably get 2:3 or something, what are the odds on these things?05:07
diana_comanmight be worth checking and will give you a remarkable in exchange05:07
diana_comanwhat 2:3?05:07
diana_comanno idea on the odds, lol05:08
danielpbarron2 "rare" ordinary claims for 3 common ones05:08
diana_comanmhm, not sure about that05:08
diana_comanI might prefer to mine the common ones by myself then05:09
diana_comanas on one hand I'd get exp05:09
diana_comanon the other hand I still get quality high enough for some noob to get lots of loot05:09
danielpbarronis it harder to find an ordinary moss than it is to find an ordinary grass?05:10
diana_coman+ I'll prolly get more ordinary rare ones too05:10
diana_comanhave no idea05:10
diana_comanI haven't explored for grass in ages05:10
danielpbarroni think it is05:10
danielpbarrongrass is a tiny every time05:10
danielpbarronmoss isn't05:10
diana_comanand then again, given that nobody has found cr and that is basic, how is that 2 cr for 1 sm?05:10
danielpbarronwell not that one obviously05:10
diana_comanthat doesn't say anything about chances of ordinary05:10
diana_comanthough05:11
danielpbarronmaybe when a patch of it is found it'll hit for a tiny every /explore05:11
diana_comansure, chances of tiny grass are about 10:1 chances of tiny moss05:11
danielpbarronditto smalls05:11
diana_comandoesn't really just translate into same at ordinary05:11
diana_comanmaybe05:11
diana_comanwill have to wait and see05:12
danielpbarronand it's about 7.5:1 tiny to small05:12
danielpbarronmoss is more uncommon05:13
danielpbarronthe "mining" category05:13
danielpbarroncan expect to get a tiny in a few tries05:14
diana_comanas I said: haven't mined grass in ages, so I don't really know how it'd go05:14
diana_comanflotsam certainly goes really well for me if I start exploring for it, though not sure whether in terms of ordinary05:14
diana_comanI mean: I get tiny in any try and small as you say, about 8:1 if not better05:14
diana_comanbut this doesn't translate in ordinary better just like that05:14
danielpbarronnot necessarily05:15
danielpbarronbut i'm going to assume it does05:15
diana_comanwell, I will not assume that, lol05:15
danielpbarronuntil proven otherwise05:15
diana_comanthen we will prolly not be able to trade those until we get data05:15
diana_comansince our assumptions clash05:16
danielpbarronso it goes05:16
diana_comanI guess if I start mining just for enums to sell05:16
diana_comanI should get data on that quite quickly05:17
danielpbarronfor Birdman_ it's just the enumerations05:17
diana_comannow it made me curious whether I'd get any flotsam or grass ordinary, lol05:17
danielpbarronhe doesn't need the claim itself05:17
danielpbarronthe claim must necessarily be wasted05:17
diana_comanyes, I got that05:17
diana_comanbut the thing is that I would then /explore for flotsam and other basic stuff05:18
danielpbarronyes05:18
diana_comanfor which I haven't really explored in ages now05:18
danielpbarronand sell me your ordinaries05:18
diana_comanas I don't have sortage and I would not build the claims then05:18
diana_comanwell, that would be possible only if we get the data to agree on a price it seems05:18
danielpbarronauction05:18
danielpbarroni'm sure mp wants em too05:19
diana_comanotherwise I will either sell them to mp05:19
diana_comanor auction, yes05:19
danielpbarronthe remarkables are worth a million probably05:19
danielpbarron"base" value says 300k on mine05:19
diana_comanor as a backup solution build them myself for exp05:19
*** Quits: chetty (~chet@unaffiliated/chetty) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)05:20
diana_comanclearly so far it seems I'll be a miner whether I want it or not, lol05:20
diana_comanthough a "rare harvestables miner" for lack of sortage05:20
diana_comanlol, what a miner05:20
danielpbarronhow about this, you bring me ordinary basic harvestable claim and i'll mine it for you and you keep the results (in container + loot) and pay me half of the difference in what the quality would have been05:20
diana_comanthat sounds more like a deal to me05:21
danielpbarroni'll do same for you with everything not basic05:21
diana_comanalso, what I did with mp earlier was this: I gave him an ordinary sb which he needed05:21
diana_comanand in return he mined for me an ordinry flotsam (with my bundle) and gave me all he got from it05:22
diana_comanhow does that sound?05:22
danielpbarroni would keep the flotsam and want the sb though05:22
diana_comanhe built for me the ord flotsam I mean05:22
danielpbarronboth basic05:22
diana_comanhow is that both the flotsam and the sb you mean? lol05:23
diana_comanyes, both basic05:23
diana_comandanielpbarron> i would keep the flotsam and want the sb though05:23
diana_comanI don't get that ^05:23
danielpbarronin that example they are both basic05:23
diana_comanyes, but what do you mean you'd keep f and want sb too?05:23
danielpbarronare you saying i mine your flotsam you mine my moss?05:23
diana_comanmhm, no, I would do that with ordinary only, but I have quite a number of ordinaries05:24
diana_comanso I might be willing to do that too05:24
diana_comanif we don't agree to a deal otherwise05:24
danielpbarronyes ordinary only05:24
diana_comanthough the one you said earlier based on half of the quality diff sounds ok to me05:24
danielpbarronyeah that's probably easiest05:25
danielpbarronhow is that figured out?05:25
diana_comanI meant: I would do the same deal I did with mp for basic harvestables only05:25
danielpbarronis it easiest to take payment in a percentage of the resulting product?05:25
diana_comandoesn't sound easier to me05:25
danielpbarronbecause i don't want to have to peg the product to a certain price05:25
diana_comanthe half quality diff thing sounds easies05:25
diana_comaneasiest05:26
danielpbarronyeah but does that mean paying copper?05:26
danielpbarronhow much copper?05:26
diana_comanyes, why not?05:26
danielpbarronhow to calculate that?05:26
diana_comanbase value + qual, what's the problem?05:26
danielpbarroni don't trust base value05:26
diana_comanuhm05:26
diana_comanlol, for basic harvestables I do05:26
diana_comanit's what they go for relaly05:26
diana_comanreally05:26
diana_comandid you ever sell or buy grass at some other price?05:26
danielpbarronyou don't even need to know base value if payment is made in the final product05:27
diana_comanor flotsam for that matter05:27
diana_comanugh05:27
danielpbarroni'm fine will getting a cut of the claim's result based on the improved quality05:27
danielpbarronfine with*05:27
diana_comanand how do you calculate the cut to be equivalent to half of the qual diff?05:27
diana_comanfor one thing, at lower qual I'd get more items prolly05:28
diana_comanI find it getting unnecessarily complex really05:28
danielpbarronso let's say you would have produced flotsam at quality 150, and mine is quality 250, so the difference is 10005:28
diana_comanok05:28
danielpbarronand the claim produces 1k05:28
diana_comanwell no05:28
danielpbarronso that's 1k * 5005:28
diana_comanit's not like that, that's the thing05:28
diana_comanit produced 1k for you given your quality05:29
diana_comanit would produce 1.5 k for me given my quality05:29
danielpbarronthat's 50k, divided by 250 is 20005:29
danielpbarronso my cut would be 200 flotsam quailty 25005:29
diana_coman(not exact number there, of course)05:29
diana_comanthat doesn't sound ok to me at all05:30
danielpbarroni'm just brainstorming05:30
diana_comanfor one thing, the difference is 100, so not sure why did you divide by 250?05:31
danielpbarronthat's the quality of each flotsam05:31
danielpbarronhalf the diff is 50, times 1000 units05:31
diana_comanoh, now I see, I missed the 50 *1k part05:31
danielpbarron50k divide by quality per unit05:31
diana_comanI still don't find this ok due to what I said earlier05:32
diana_comanin fact it should be 1k*250 as that is indeed what I would get too05:32
danielpbarronif that were the case, then the difference would be 100 flotsam for me05:32
danielpbarronif it's true that you would have gotten 1.5k05:32
diana_coman(I would get it as the result of different factors, but yeah)05:33
danielpbarronbut i don't know that that's even true05:33
diana_comanlook05:33
diana_comanthe qual*count05:33
diana_comanis what would be a reasonable assumption of what you get05:33
diana_comanso 1k*25005:33
danielpbarronyep, diff is 25k05:33
danielpbarronin favor of my stack05:33
mircea_popescuback05:34
diana_comanthanks mircea_popescu05:35
danielpbarronBirdman_, ^05:35
diana_comanoh wow, upon seeing the game back up it seems that the previous really bad spell reported is just an artefact of a failed tool change sigh05:37
danielpbarronBirdman_, you left your screens05:37
Birdman_oh right05:37
diana_comanstill, got 35 mushrooms for about 2.5 hours05:38
diana_comanso that's actually quite good05:38
danielpbarronwell that makes a lot more sense05:39
diana_comandanielpbarron the adjusted calculations being?05:39
danielpbarron100 flotsam05:39
diana_comanyes, it was really odd, but well, I didn't make it spit out *everything* lol05:39
danielpbarron10%05:39
diana_comannow of course the thing is: why the heck did it fail when it tried to change the tool the 4th time exactly?05:40
diana_comangeez05:40
diana_comanarghhh it might be because it ran out of space in inv for the old tool, argggh05:43
mircea_popescu<danielpbarron> i'll be able to have like a real legit store soon >< :D05:44
diana_comannot even 1 level in building, sigh05:44
mircea_popescu<danielpbarron> i'll play poker when it's in eulora << i was actually thinking of having some mini games added. but it'd be... flavoured.05:45
diana_comanso I have > 50 tiny wpl enums05:45
diana_comanBirdman_ ^05:46
diana_comanand more than 100 tiny moss enums, lol05:46
diana_comanlol, tinies of pretty much all found stuff05:46
diana_comanso I guess ping me when back in town05:46
Birdman_flavoured aye?05:47
danielpbarronreally need the smalls05:48
diana_comandanielpbarron I still don't grok how do you go exactly from diff in quality to percentage of items given the link between number of items and qual05:49
diana_comanlemme see smalls then05:49
danielpbarronseparate thing05:49
diana_coman(I used to mine those though, so prolly fewer in there)05:49
danielpbarronexactly, same here05:49
diana_comanthey are not  separate, that's the thing (number of items and qual)05:50
diana_comanwell, I have about 15 small bn enums05:50
danielpbarronno i mean the small claims are for birdman05:50
diana_comanand a few here and there of all the other stuff05:50
danielpbarronthe enums rather05:50
diana_comanso: Birdman_ ?05:50
danielpbarronthat's separate from our discussion about ordinary claims05:50
diana_comanyes, of course, lol05:51
mircea_popescuthe one thing i lioke about this mega slag run is that i get a lot of sortage/tinkering05:51
diana_comanthere are 2 discussions in parallel05:51
mircea_popescuthe one thing i don't like is of course the 25mn i paid for it05:51
diana_comanha ha05:51
diana_comanseen my mininig report earlier?05:51
diana_comanlol05:51
mircea_popescureading through this log05:51
diana_comanI like the 30+ shrooms05:51
mircea_popescuit's nuts, eulora log > b-a log05:51
diana_comanI don't like the failed tool change and subsequent burning of 4 hours for not05:51
diana_comannaught I should say05:51
Birdman_busy for a bit05:52
mircea_popescuyo ufound nothing barehanded ?05:52
diana_comanI left it mining with cruddy hoes + change of tools05:52
diana_comanit worked fine05:52
diana_comanuntil the inv was full of shit05:52
danielpbarron/explore doesn't work at all if a dull tool is in hand05:52
diana_comanand therefore it didn't have where to put the old tool05:52
diana_comanand therefore it failed to change it05:52
diana_comanyes, but it shouldn't have been!05:53
diana_comanlol05:53
diana_comanfor the first 2.5 hours it just changed it with a new tool05:53
diana_comanwhenever worn-out05:53
diana_comanworked perfectly05:53
diana_comannow I guess next thing is to run it the whole night with bare hands + die and compare the output per hour, lol05:53
diana_comanthough will have only 2.5 hrs of real data for the tool part05:54
diana_comanmight need a bigger delay after die too05:54
diana_comanugh05:54
mircea_popescuthis "cut based on final quality" danielpbarron hatched is not actually half bad. might end up a miner standard.05:55
mircea_popescuso if you mine at 155 and i mine at 310, i would get half the grass i mined off your claim at 310 ?05:55
mircea_popescumight be a bit much. but still a good basis to set the knobs on05:55
diana_comanthat's the thing: it seems a bit much to me05:56
mircea_popescubut that part is negotiable.05:56
diana_comanI don't see why not use the base value05:56
mircea_popescuonce you got a fair platform, finding a fair price is much easier05:56
diana_comanthe thing about half of diff in quality sounds good for sure05:56
mircea_popescuthe real problem is finding an actual fair platform.05:56
diana_comanas I said from the start05:56
diana_comanit's the percentage split that I am not so sure about05:56
diana_comanuhm, I guess I should update my shop and list ordinary enums, lol05:57
diana_comanor claims rather05:57
mircea_popescuthe thing is this : suppose you mine at 155 and suppose i mine at 31005:57
* diana_coman the miner by accident05:57
mircea_popescuhow do i know that you would have got the same grass count as i do ?05:57
mircea_popescumaybe iu get half as many at twice the quality.05:57
danielpbarroni wasn't asking for half05:57
diana_comanthat was what I said earlier, isn't it?05:57
mircea_popescuso this techniucally means that actually having noobs mine may be better.05:58
mircea_popescuyou get low qual, which you don't carte, but MORE items, which you do care.05:58
danielpbarronhalf the diff in quality times the total number of units divided by the higher quality05:58
diana_comandanielpbarron the total number of units is influenced by the higher qual already05:59
danielpbarronso you say05:59
mircea_popescuis it ?05:59
diana_comanwell once again: will have to wait to get data on that05:59
mircea_popesculots of things to get data on05:59
diana_comanso far that's how it seems to me based on exp05:59
mircea_popescubut the "average value of a small" or "average value of an ordinary" woul;d be interesting data points for sure06:00
mircea_popescuit'd help all this trading them stuff.06:00
diana_comansure @ lots of things to get data on06:00
mircea_popescubtw how's you two handling the monopoly trade danielpbarron ? got anything sizzling on the altar ?06:01
danielpbarroni'm burning some leather06:01
mircea_popescuo hey. what's that give ?06:01
danielpbarrontokens06:01
mircea_popescuthat it ?06:01
danielpbarronand something in loot06:01
danielpbarroni need higher quality stuff to burn06:02
danielpbarronwho has the best leather?06:02
mircea_popescufoxy prolly.06:02
mircea_popescuor maybe me. 160ish i think i get.06:02
mircea_popescudiana_coman so is the oil done ? :D06:03
* mircea_popescu thinks06:03
diana_comanlolz mircea_popescu next gen bot: mines & crafts in parallel06:03
mircea_popescuhey danielpbarron if Birdman_ is keeping his booq skill low, how the f are you going to get good overcrafts ?06:04
mircea_popesculow q bps06:04
danielpbarronhe isn't06:04
danielpbarronhe's ranking up06:04
mircea_popescuthen again i guess they aren't as heavy as imp tool bps or anything06:04
mircea_popescudiana_coman what's your situation anyway, got the moss, got half the shrooms or something ?06:04
diana_comanI think I still get 155q on wpl, but will prolly rank up now with all the building06:04
diana_comanpretty much, more like 75% of shrooms now06:05
diana_comanand got about 60 oil done06:05
diana_comanalready06:05
mircea_popescua ok. so like tomorrow, unless it rains where you live06:05
diana_comansomething like that, yes06:05
diana_comannow I got all into mining it would seem06:06
mircea_popescuim stuck for ~2500 minutes burning this flotsam06:06
mircea_popescuhopefully a noob sells me tacks. like i dunno, 200 of them06:06
diana_comanand updated: http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/foxystore.html06:10
lobbesbotFoxy's Useful Items (at www.dianacoman.com)06:10
diana_comandanielpbarron, mircea_popescu see ^ for ordinary claims offer06:10
diana_comanbasic harvestables06:10
diana_comanmircea_popescu I have 150 studs06:12
diana_comanbase metal studs - I guess that's what you call tacks?06:12
Birdman_im gonna be boosting06:13
Birdman_my bouq06:13
diana_comanthe overflow thing is what made the bot fail on changing tools indeed; guess will have to find a safe way of dropping new keys now, sigh06:16
mircea_popescuyeah06:19
mircea_popescuput them on your head, dpb style06:19
mircea_popescudiana_coman you selling teh studs ?06:19
danielpbarronahh crap, my altar is worn out06:21
mircea_popescuno ?!06:21
mircea_popescunobody looted a recipe yet did they.06:21
danielpbarronwell at least i looted a pretty nice stack of something06:22
mircea_popescuof what ?06:22
mircea_popescuanyway, i guess we know what we're auctioning sunday huh.06:22
danielpbarronyeah i have a couple things perhaps06:23
mircea_popescunah, im gonna put up another altar + skill package.06:23
mircea_popescuis what i meant.06:23
diana_comanyes mircea_popescu I'm selling them, will be back later today if it's not urgent06:27
diana_comanoh, that sounds good for sunday06:28
diana_comanmircea_popescu re keys the trouble is not where to put them at all, lol06:28
diana_comanbut rather making sure it's the right key I drop06:28
diana_comanas i don't want to end up dropping the key of an ordinary or something, lol06:28
danielpbarronthey key always goes into the #1 inventory spot if you always move it afterwards06:29
diana_comanoh, 5 shrooms already since 10 mins ago06:29
diana_comanwell, that would be an approach sure, but prolly much safer to get the id of the thing and then drop it precisely, regardless of where it mind have ended up in inv06:29
diana_comanbut as a start hack it's not bad danielpbarron, sure06:30
danielpbarroni move my ordinary and remarkable keys to the bottom of my inventory so that i cannot possibly accidentally throw it away06:30
diana_comanthat's the thing: if I just check that it IS a small/tiny key before I drop it, then I can sleep well, lol06:31
diana_comanso prolly will go for that rather06:31
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chettymorning06:47
diana_comanmorning chetty06:49
diana_comanactually started the crafting run for oil mircea_popescu so if it doesn't rain, the whole lot should be ready today in the evening (it's 8am here)07:11
diana_comanand crash07:34
diana_coman(I was just getting things out of storage so prolly not me this time)07:34
diana_comanchetty or mircea_popescu?07:37
chettyup07:48
diana_comanthanks chetty07:50
mircea_popescu<danielpbarron> i move my ordinary and remarkable keys to the bottom of my inventory so that i cannot possibly accidentally throw it away << the same here.12:53
diana_comanyeah, but that's not worth it automatically: if I get to move ordinary (hence I know what they are) then I can just not dump them lol12:58
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diana_comanoh wow, so the client itself handles the "too fast for messages" thing: //wait for the view to complete loading15:46
diana_coman    while(!objView->ContinueLoad())15:46
diana_coman    {15:46
diana_coman        csSleep(100);15:46
diana_coman    }15:46
diana_comanbrilliant15:46
mircea_popescutoooldja15:47
mircea_popescuit's basically a bad web browser from the 90s.15:48
diana_comanit hurt to see that, lol15:48
diana_comanmircea_popescu I have 100 bottles of oil15:52
diana_coman15015:52
diana_comansorry15:52
diana_comanfull set, lol15:52
mircea_popescua cool. coming over15:53
diana_comanok15:53
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BirdmanIs anyone around?15:56
chettyboo15:57
diana_comanha ha, boo16:01
diana_comananyone wants dead molluscs?16:01
chettyI like them live, with a little hotsauce16:03
diana_comanha ha chetty, eulora's far from that it seems16:03
chettyone can dream16:07
mircea_popescuwell maybe in time16:39
diana_comanoh, I even forgot: still have about 30 mushrooms; if anyone wants them, I'll be in game in about 2.5 hours16:40
diana_comanBirdman, you in game? I got wpl enums for you17:20
diana_comanwpl = leather, Birdman17:27
danielpbarroncrash17:53
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mircea_popescuaha17:57
mircea_popescuback17:58
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Birdmanbuying all tiny polishied small stone enumerations19:54
diana_comanwhat do you give for them?20:12
Birdmancopper20:12
Birdmanare purple snails rare20:12
diana_comanyes they are20:16
Birdmannice20:16
diana_comanand apparently claims are more difficult to get than for wm from what data I have20:16
Birdman\wm?20:17
diana_coman(as in: fewer per number of tries)20:17
diana_comanlol Birdman, go to the wiki and through the list of short names20:17
diana_comanwm = mushrooms20:17
Birdmanoh wooly mushrooms20:17
Birdmanalright i guess i should look it over20:17
diana_comanhow much do you pay for tiny pss enum?20:17
diana_comanpolished stones...20:18
Birdmanhow many of them20:18
Birdmanif you have a ton ill pay 100% over base20:18
diana_comanI guess as many as you need as I can tether the bot there and let it get more20:18
Birdmanif few then less20:18
diana_comanbase is shit, no way20:18
Birdmanoh a long term sort of thing20:18
Birdmanill pay well for a steady supply20:18
diana_comanbase for mining scrolls is very weird20:19
Birdmanill ask dan what i can get him to pay per leather20:19
Birdmanfactor in my costs20:19
diana_comanthe wpl ones were 15 coppers apparently20:19
Birdmanthen figure out what to pay you each20:19
Birdmanthen we wont worry of base value20:19
Birdmanlet me talk to dan quick20:19
danielpbarroni need to get a new altar20:19
diana_comanwhich is laughable given that 1 wpl I get from that even after taking away cost of 1 bit of nothing and of tool decay still gets to way more than 15 c20:20
diana_comansure, I'm not in a hurry at all anyway20:20
danielpbarronit's not worth the cost of a try necessarily20:20
danielpbarronbecause each try had a chance of getting you $MAXINT20:20
diana_comanatm my first priority is to figure out a reliable way of getting the bot to map the whole thing rather than just tie it up in one spot really20:20
diana_comanbut pss I get quite ok so I can spare some time to do that too20:21
danielpbarronbut i think it should be more profitable to sell an enumeration than to mine it in the case of tiny and small20:21
diana_comandanielpbarron everything you do in eulora has a chance of maxint20:21
danielpbarronit should be the aim of the advanced gatherer to find ordinary and above20:21
diana_comanwell, if it's not, then why the hell would one sell it at all? lol20:22
danielpbarronbecause it takes time to mine it20:22
diana_comanneah, don't care20:22
danielpbarronthe tinies especially20:22
diana_comanwhen I sleep, it doesn't take my time, lol20:22
danielpbarronit reduces the number of ordinaries found per unit of time20:22
danielpbarronbecause that was time you could have been spending on a new /explore20:22
danielpbarronso tinies are obviously more valuable saved than mined20:23
danielpbarronthe smalls you have to also save in order for the tiny enumerations to sell20:23
diana_comanwell, if there is a reasonable market for them20:23
diana_comanbig if20:23
danielpbarronbecause the supplications require some of both20:23
danielpbarronso i would wager that smalls are worth mining, but you have to at least save enough to pair with the tinies you save20:23
diana_comanprecisely: lots of complications for me and it has to be worth it for me to bother20:23
diana_comanwell then again20:24
diana_comansee the case of hanbot with her big finds from tiny claims20:24
danielpbarronthere is a market for them i assure you20:24
diana_comanit's not that straightforward20:24
diana_comanan ordinary costs a lot to build20:24
diana_comana tiny costs very little20:24
danielpbarronit will feel weird at first, but tiny and small enumerations are much better spent unmined20:24
diana_comanand if you build a ton of them you might actually be better off20:24
diana_comanthan in your scenario that you lost x ordinaries per unit of time due to building tinies20:24
danielpbarronand the tiny enumerations can be converted20:25
diana_comanit might be as you say, don't have the data to say it's not, but it might not be20:25
diana_comandanielpbarron so you say20:25
diana_comanI don't buy it just on your say so, sorry20:25
danielpbarronwell anyway i'm buying them Birdman's buying them20:25
diana_comanso I'm asking: what do you pay for them?20:25
danielpbarrondepends on which one20:25
diana_comangeez, start with the pss since that is what Birdman just asked for20:26
diana_coman(and no, it's not about "feeling weird" lol, what bullshit is that - I got just a bit earlier today some wpl claims for Birdman)20:26
diana_coman(some wpl enums I should say)20:27
BirdmanWell lets figure this out20:29
Birdmanwhat are you willing to pay for a supplication of stone dan20:29
danielpbarroni don't know yet20:29
diana_comanlol20:29
BirdmanI dont know what else i could base a price off of for her enums20:29
danielpbarroni will be providing you with the ingredients to make each one in exchange for the result if that's alright20:30
diana_comanbtw danielpbarron are you currently buying suppl of leather drafts?20:30
Birdmanwell you have nothing for me to make20:30
danielpbarronyes20:30
Birdmanshe has access to the enums i need20:30
diana_comanwhat do you give for those drafts?20:30
diana_comanyou can wait until I get enough data to attempt to figure out a price based on that20:30
diana_comanthat's also an option20:31
danielpbarron1 million for 1k of them20:31
diana_coman1 mill for 1k suppl of leather drafts?20:31
danielpbarronya20:31
danielpbarronjurov, ping20:31
jurove?20:32
danielpbarroni will need to buy some coppers20:32
diana_comanso 1k per draft, provided it's a set of 1k, isn't that clearer? lol20:32
danielpbarronsure20:32
danielpbarronoh i should say, high quality20:32
danielpbarron100 or more20:32
diana_comanI'll need to get back to the village and check some things to see if that makes any sense at all to me20:32
diana_comanand will let you know20:33
diana_comanwhat quality do you get Birdman?20:33
danielpbarronalso check if you have pacadamia nuts20:33
diana_comanI do, though not many20:33
danielpbarron4?20:33
diana_comansounds like some number I might have, yes20:33
diana_comanbut those oh dear me, lol20:33
diana_comanmp wants them too and I haven't seen any at all20:34
danielpbarronmaybe i have one and only need 320:34
Birdmandanielpbarron: http://pastebin.com/rpgAMj2F20:34
lobbesbotSupplication of Leather: 17 Tiny WPL enumerations; 3 Small WPL enumerations Sup - Pastebin.com (at pastebin.com)20:34
BirdmanList of everything i need for my drafts20:34
diana_comansee Birdman, you could have offered to just *show* me the recipe so that I can add it to the index, but lol20:34
diana_comannm20:34
BirdmanI dont get it20:35
BirdmanOh nvm20:35
diana_comanthe index of recipes is created automatically by a script reading the logs spit out by the bot when I read a recipe20:35
diana_comanbasically20:35
danielpbarronyou don't need to say what the supplication itself needs20:35
danielpbarroni already know that20:35
diana_comanbut yeah, nvm20:35
diana_comananyway: Birdman, what quality do you obtain for the drafts?20:36
danielpbarronso it's always 3 to 17?20:36
diana_coman(I'm not in town so I can't check it now)20:36
Birdmanright now 60 till i boost it up20:36
Birdmanno20:36
Birdmannot always20:36
Birdmanlook at stone20:36
diana_comanoh, heard that danielpbarron?20:37
diana_comanquite a way to go to 100 quality20:37
Birdmanmeh20:37
diana_comanahahah, bot got stuck into the fountain, lol20:37
Birdmanif i could craft as much as i wanted today it'd probably be up there20:38
Birdmanjust have none of the ingredients20:38
jurovmy talk window ended up offscreen somehow :(20:38
diana_comanyeah, thing is: I'm not going to *pay* myself for your levelling up20:38
danielpbarronthank you jurov20:38
Birdmanwhat do you mean20:39
diana_comanthat the price for the claims has actually nothing to do with how much daniel is willing to pay for your output since of course he will pay less for lower quality output20:39
danielpbarronok i have 1 nut20:39
danielpbarronso i only need 320:40
diana_comanbut what's that have to do with the enums I provide?20:40
danielpbarroni'll get back to you with a price20:40
danielpbarronor um, i could get one now for leather20:40
diana_comanI don't follow, danielpbarron if that was for me20:40
diana_comanahaha @ suppl of "mosses" :)))20:42
diana_comanbetter moses directly or something20:42
danielpbarroncrashed20:42
diana_comansupplication of back up ?20:43
diana_comanchetty or mircea_popescu ^20:43
Birdmanyeah whats that have to do with the enums you have20:43
diana_comanwell, if you price the enums based on what daniel will pay for your output, then it follows that it has + to expect that you actually make a profit while training is kind of...20:44
diana_comanfwiw I was 100 in tinkering in the early days and it was still actually NOT breaking even to sell the output20:45
diana_comanso well20:45
diana_comanbut in any case, do figure out what you want to pay and let me know20:45
Birdmanheh20:45
diana_comanI'll try on my side to figure out what I am willing to sell them for and will let you know too20:45
Birdmanare you saying i *shouldnt* be profiting while im training?20:45
danielpbarron^ correct20:46
diana_comanpretty much, yes20:46
Birdmanif i can figure out how to i will of course20:46
Birdmanbut saying i shouldnt arbitrarily is a different story20:47
diana_comanit is a true story though, lol20:47
diana_comansince when did the apprentice make a profit? lol20:48
diana_comanit's not in the sense that you "shouldn't" if you can, sure20:49
Birdmananyways, the way i see it is that upon your mining travels you come across tiny enums ill buy them, danielpbarron's point was that you would save money by not using the claims, because you would retain value for the enumerations as well as taking less time to find the more valuable claims, and with the increased supply dan will be able to train his sacrifice so its a win win win20:49
diana_comanlol the two of you20:49
diana_comando read what I said earlier in response to that, will you?20:49
diana_comanin a nutshell daniel's view *seems* coherent, sure, but it's based on many assumptions that I don't buy atm due to experience so far20:52
diana_comanI don't outright reject it - it might turn out he's right, sure20:52
BirdmanRight, dont take his word for it20:52
diana_comanbut I will wait and get the data to back it up or to disprove it since the alternative is equally coherent + so far actually backed up by some reported results20:53
Birdmanwell really its all dependant on what i'd pay for the enumerations, or what you'd have to charge for you to make it more efficient20:54
diana_comanindeed20:54
diana_comanthat I can fully agree to20:54
danielpbarroni prefer higher quality supplications20:54
danielpbarronlike very strongly prefer20:54
diana_comanit's also quite unfortunate I guess that you actually seem to need only rare things, lol20:54
danielpbarronbecause apparently the altar doesn't last long20:55
Birdmanwell the sup or pps is the easiet20:55
diana_comanas you'd have a much better case for basic ones20:55
diana_comansince I don't have sortage20:55
Birdmanjust need ctt and tiny pss enums20:55
danielpbarronsome of them i don't want at the moment20:56
danielpbarronbut i do know i want leather and berries20:56
Birdmanright20:56
danielpbarroni want high quality though20:56
Birdmanand i want my skill boosted, which is why the pss is the easiest to make that happen20:57
danielpbarronthat's on you20:57
danielpbarronit sounds like you're gonna have to make a bunch that i won't end up buying20:57
danielpbarronalthough i'll buy them at a discount just to stockpile20:57
danielpbarronbut i probably won't use your low quality ones20:58
danielpbarronand you can indeed expect to lose money making them20:58
Birdmanthere's a price for everything20:58
danielpbarronyeah and the price for the altar is very high20:58
Birdmani have no problem working at a deficit20:58
diana_comanand to round up the nutshell thing: my view atm is that tiny rare claims actually are quite profitable to build + they still hold the chance of really big strikes (see grenadine's repeated results on this) + ordinaries cost a lot to build (when you can, as many rare ordinaries require all sorts of things we don't even have)20:58
Birdmanjust need diana_coman to run the numbers and get back with the price per enum20:58
diana_comanok then20:59
diana_comanwill try to do that as soon as I can; atm I have very limited data, but I can still try and have a look at least for started21:00
diana_comanstarters21:00
Birdmandoes my tinkering skill level effect the output quality of my sups?21:00
diana_comangood question21:00
danielpbarrondo you get tinkering points when you do it?21:00
Birdmanim pretty sure you do21:00
danielpbarroni think it relates21:00
danielpbarronpretty sure my mcguyvering output depends on my tinkering rank21:01
diana_comanthat yes, sure21:01
danielpbarronnot sure what being ranked up in mcguyvering benefits21:01
Birdmanquality of future things mcguyvered21:01
diana_comanmy impression so far is that tinkering is like the basic thing and then the others are specialisations as it were21:01
diana_comanbut well, it's more of an assumption based on very limited exp21:01
danielpbarronso does having a higher mcguyver rank effect the quality of your products?21:01
danielpbarroni'm tempted to say it doesn't21:02
diana_comanof your mcguyver products and I would guess of loot21:02
danielpbarronyes maybe it makes better loot21:02
danielpbarronbut i think the quality of my mcguyvering results is the same as my tinkering21:02
diana_comanbut a higher tinkering rank effect I think impacts the quality of your products in all branches21:02
danielpbarronnot all21:02
diana_comanthat's what I meant with tinkering being the basic skill21:02
diana_comanpossibly21:02
danielpbarroni don't think tinkering effects sacrifice21:03
diana_comanI guess it depends on whether it's an entirely new branch21:03
danielpbarronmy output on the altar is all very high quality21:03
diana_comanand sacrifice seems to be21:03
Birdmanall craft branches21:03
diana_comansacrifice is actually under faith21:03
danielpbarronah that's a good point21:03
diana_comanso of course, yes, what does it have to do with tinkering?21:03
Birdmanor craft skill lines rather21:03
danielpbarronso tinkering effects all the stuff in that tab21:03
Birdmanwould make sense21:03
diana_comanthat's my current hypothesis21:03
danielpbarronbouq mcguyver lapidary21:03
Birdmanso i should boost tinkering bouq21:04
danielpbarronyou should not boost tinkering21:04
danielpbarronlet it lag behind21:04
Birdmanwhy not?21:04
danielpbarroni think it would get you better loot for longer that way21:04
Birdmanfor the sole sake of looting blueprints?21:04
Birdmanthink of it like this, i dont have a bot to boost with21:04
danielpbarronand you also want tinkering low for other skills in that tab you might want to loot in21:04
Birdmanthe people ahead of me will just grow a bigger gap despite my efforts21:04
danielpbarronactually speaking of which, i need to have you try to multiply some mcguyver blueprints21:05
Birdmanthere will always be over craft possibility21:05
Birdmanim thinking it will be irrelevant if i boost it for the sake of getting you better q sacrifice sups21:05
diana_comanbirdman I've heard it said by mircea_popescu that "it's not a race"21:05
Birdmanor only profitable21:05
diana_comanquite curious how many will play it like that actually21:06
danielpbarronsome things are a race21:06
danielpbarronlike first to rank 20021:06
Birdmanwell yes diana_coman, i think in the sense that there will most likely always be people below you to always profit off of21:06
Birdmanand those above you21:06
diana_comanoh, no, I don't think it's meant that way at all21:06
Birdmanbut the amount you can profit will be better with higher levels21:06
Birdmanthen why wouldnt it be a race?21:06
diana_comanand tbh I don't think that people below you in rank are for you to profit off, lol21:06
mircea_popescuserver back21:07
Birdmanwell the name of this game is to become the most efficient and profit21:07
Birdmanif im not mistaken?21:07
diana_comansupplication of back up answered! thanks mircea_popescu21:07
diana_comanbut it's not a one-way thing21:07
mircea_popescuBirdman it's unclear if that problem even has a stable solution set. it would seem they are not computable in any case21:08
diana_comanhigher-up profits of smaller-down who eat it all up until they get high enough to continue the cycle or something21:08
mircea_popescuthese are very much conjectures at this point21:08
diana_comanBirdman: did you profit from the initial packs I've sold you? (high quality grass or whatever it was to tinker etc)21:09
Birdmani forgot what i paid you for that21:09
diana_comanlol21:09
danielpbarrondown again21:09
Birdmanbut i did sell all the ctt to mp21:09
diana_comanwow, that was too fast for me :)))21:09
Birdmanand got tinkering boosted21:09
diana_comanso exactly21:09
diana_comanI'd say you did profit, since otherwise it would have taken you days (more probably weeks) to mine enough grass to even make that much thread and in any case no overcraft21:10
diana_comanand therefore no loot21:10
Birdmanyeah of course21:10
diana_comanso do tell me how is that since you were lower hence I was supposedly profiting from you or something21:11
diana_comanwhile you were not21:11
Birdmanwell my profits weren't in copper21:11
Birdmanthey were in time21:11
Birdmanand loot21:11
diana_comanloot is copper for one thing21:11
Birdmanyes but nowhere near as much21:12
diana_comanand time well, I'd say it's more precious than copper21:12
diana_comansince it's really something you can't get more of under any circumstance21:12
diana_comanno matter what you do21:12
Birdmanyeah21:12
diana_comanhow is that "nowhere near as much"?21:12
Birdmandepending on what i paid you for the grass21:12
mircea_popescudanielpbarron same thing, too. what are you doing to it ?21:12
danielpbarronopening my storage21:13
Birdmanthe items i generate from loot are all really low quality21:13
mircea_popescuback. weird.21:13
diana_comanwhere did you get those suppl drafts from ? did you buy them from daniel ?21:14
Birdmanhow does anyone profit from anything? you provided a good or service i needed and i paid for it21:14
Birdmanwith higher levels and exp, you can charge someone who is lower level and exp to provide what they need21:14
Birdmanauction21:14
Birdmanthe rest loot generated21:14
diana_comanso there, lol21:15
diana_comanso you got a monopol thing out of the whole stuff and you still say you did not profit21:15
diana_comanreally21:15
Birdmanbut they're really low quality lol, you would generate them of much higher value21:15
Birdmandont you have any to generate loot?21:15
Birdmanthe drafts that is21:15
diana_comanwell, if I get them for one thing, since it is actually more difficult for me to get loot given higher level21:15
Birdmanyeah21:16
diana_comanI think I have some, that's not the point though21:16
diana_comanmy point is that you say "higher up profits from those lower down" as if it were a one-way thing21:16
diana_comanit's not21:16
diana_comanit's a two-way thing21:16
diana_comanvery much two-way21:16
Birdmanoh21:16
diana_comanlower-down profits from higher-up21:16
Birdmanwell yeah that goes without saying21:16
danielpbarroni'll have to get another altar before i can quote prices21:16
diana_comandidn't seem so really, lol21:17
Birdmani thought you meant you wouldnt profit off the lower down people21:17
danielpbarrondiana_coman, do you want to sell me 3 nuts?21:18
diana_comanyou profit from what you sell, it hasn't much to do with them being lower skill21:18
Birdmanits back down21:18
diana_comandanielpbarron, let me go and see how many I have and if I can spare them at all as with the nuts I really don't know21:18
danielpbarronugh, it crashed again21:18
diana_comanahahaha back down21:18
danielpbarronmircea_popescu,21:18
mircea_popescucan you be more specific ?21:18
danielpbarronthis time i trained and wrote down how much copper i had left21:19
mircea_popescuuh.21:19
Birdmanits crashed every time right after i make my pps bundles21:19
danielpbarronwill be interesting to see if my copper is refunded as i usually have to re-train when this happens21:19
mircea_popescuhow do you make the pps bundlkes ?21:19
danielpbarroneach time i have to walk back to town from the same spot, and then i open my storage21:19
Birdmanput em in the claim and combine the ctt21:19
Birdmanbut take out before it extracts21:19
danielpbarron..21:20
diana_comanahahah21:20
mircea_popesculol21:20
danielpbarrondon't do that21:20
diana_comanthat's the crash point21:20
mircea_popescuyoiu know this wears down the tool yes ?21:20
* danielpbarron stabs Birdman 21:20
Birdmanwhich tool?21:20
mircea_popescuanyway, leaving chetty a breadcrumb here.21:20
mircea_popescumost of these have been fixed but apparently something still left.21:20
danielpbarronBirdman, it's never in your best interest to stop a craft21:20
danielpbarronand it can crash the server21:20
danielpbarrondon't make bundles21:20
Birdmanhave to21:20
mircea_popescubackup21:20
danielpbarronit's unnecessarily less fungible21:21
Birdmanbut i think i can use craft table21:21
danielpbarronno you don't have to21:21
diana_comanif you want bundles, make them in anything else21:21
diana_comanlike on the craft table21:21
mircea_popescushouldn't really crash it, so there is that. it's useful to find hte spots21:21
diana_comanbut in any case, you can just leave it to go on, don't have to interrupt it21:21
mircea_popescubut once onme was found, not useful to keep doing it past a few times, before chetty had a chance to patch it21:21
Birdmani need the actual bundles21:21
Birdmanlol21:21
danielpbarronthe bundle can only be used to do one thing; the ingredients that went into it are not limited in this way21:21
diana_comanso make them in the craft table21:21
danielpbarronno reason to make bundles before you plan to actually use them21:21
Birdmanyeah i got that now21:21
Birdmanim planning on using them for sup21:22
danielpbarronso turn them into bundles on your screens21:22
danielpbarroni don't even understand what you are describing21:22
Birdmanlol dont worry about it dude21:22
Birdmanive got it under control now21:22
mircea_popescudanielpbarron actually : i have some remarkable mining claims that want bundles.21:24
Birdmansupplication asks for it too21:24
mircea_popescujurov man you gotta make me the eulora chan integration this is hopeless!21:25
diana_comanmircea_popescu you wanted the nuts too, right?21:25
mircea_popescupacademia ? sure, but not at crazy %s!21:25
danielpbarronyep i got cheated out of 19`038 on training21:25
danielpbarronin the crash21:25
danielpbarronmade me pay again and didn't refund from before21:25
diana_comanno, if I find out I can actually sell any, I'll just auction them21:25
diana_coman(still a long away from town atm, lol)21:26
mircea_popescudanielpbarron sorry for your loss!21:27
diana_comanin any case: I basically take orders for rare items that have been found so far and I currently have about 30 wm if anyone wants them21:28
danielpbarrongimme a price on 3 nuts21:28
diana_comandanielpbarron let me get to town, will you?21:29
diana_comanlol21:29
danielpbarronbase value says 1.5k21:30
diana_comanI'll end up checking the logs for how much spiron asked for them, at least out of curiosity21:32
diana_coman(I need to check a bit the mining things to see where /if they are needed for what I have now)21:32
mircea_popescuit's spirover21:33
mircea_popescu<danielpbarron> the smalls you have to also save in order for the tiny enumerations to sell << this is actually an interesting argument21:34
mircea_popescui do agree that i don't usually bother with digging the tinies.21:35
mircea_popescuused to gift them to noobs21:35
diana_comanmanually I used to not dig them either21:35
Birdmanits true for any supplement that needs both, supplement of stones do not21:35
mircea_popescuincidentally danielpbarron you buying tpt ?21:36
diana_comanbut the bot changes things21:36
diana_comangood news is: I can sell the nuts21:36
diana_coman3 I guess21:36
diana_comanany use for 3 of them?21:36
danielpbarronyes21:36
diana_comanmircea_popescu or anyone else?21:36
danielpbarronmircea_popescu, you have high quality tpt?21:37
danielpbarronyes i want21:37
diana_comanI'll auction them starting at 2k per, but will wait for mp to answer since he said he wanted them too21:38
danielpbarron2k21:38
danielpbarronin here or in game?21:39
diana_comanin game I guess21:39
diana_comanchetty I'm getting again overweight messages (though only mod this time, none system) although not overweight22:28
diana_comannot sure what is going on really22:28
diana_comanI am exploring when this happens22:28
diana_comanand I am actually not even finding anything22:28
diana_comanI caught them only because I was checking for that too as it might happen for real when building something22:29
diana_comantbh I start thinking that maybe the messages get messed up/sent to the wrong client or something, lol22:29
mircea_popescui have low q tpt22:32
mircea_popescugrenadine dug it out mostly.22:32
diana_comanmircea_popescu are you crafting overweight in game?22:33
diana_comanby any chance? as I think that might be why I get those messages when exploring around there22:33
diana_comanit's the first and only place+ time I got them, lol22:33
mircea_popescui dunno diana... i only got 30k flotsam in my pockets...22:34
mircea_popescushould be ok22:34
diana_comanuhm, then really weird22:34
mircea_popesculol22:35
diana_comannow really not sure what the heck to do22:35
diana_comanthe bot was normally stopping when overweight22:36
diana_comanas not much sense in trying to do something it can't22:36
diana_comanbut then with those false overweight messages...22:36
diana_comanshit22:36
mircea_popescuscam server lol22:36
diana_comanindeed, they are even hidden, lol22:36
diana_comanunrelated and for input: 1 tiny wpl gives me at least 1 wpl selling for 232 at the merchant22:37
diana_comaninput into that is 1 bit of nothing (11c)22:37
mircea_popescuwell + the decay22:38
diana_comantool decay and time mined which I will leave aside for the moment (but consider compensated by using base value too)22:38
diana_comanyes, see ^22:38
diana_comanso I guess that 232 would be the very minimum at which I would consider even selling tiny claims of wpl22:38
diana_comanand actually it makes more sense for noob miners to sell them prolly22:39
diana_comandon't know really22:39
Birdmanwell calculate the cost of the tool for how many uses22:39
diana_coman(re time mined - not yet enough data for wpl to say anything about it, but tbh I get them quite easily, for instance much easier than wm)22:40
Birdmanfigure out number of uses it takes to get the enum22:40
diana_comanyes Birdman, but have to mine enough for that to make sense, lol22:40
Birdmanprobably a small fraction over 122:40
mircea_popescualso figure out the ordinary value of a try etc.22:40
diana_comanthe basic maths involved is clear, yes22:40
diana_comanexactly22:40
diana_comanand I need more data for that22:40
diana_comancan't do it out of 1hr run22:40
Birdmanstill dont get why building level goes into it, jst because the harvestable is higher q?22:41
diana_comanyes22:41
Birdmanthe gather skil determines the enums q22:41
diana_comantrue I guess22:41
diana_comanbut ignoring the cases when you get more than 1 out of a tiny22:42
diana_comanthe enum q does not matter basically22:42
Birdmanwhy not22:42
Birdmanit goes into what im crafting22:42
diana_comanyour output is the same and it depends only on your build skill22:42
diana_comanlol birdman, yes it matters for you22:42
diana_comanit doesn't matter at build time for me though22:42
Birdmanright, which means it matters for you lol22:42
Birdmanwell yeah i guess not22:42
Birdmanthe quality of bit of nothing does22:43
diana_comanhow is that? if it matters for you then it matters for me? did we get married or something?22:43
Birdmanid pay more for higher quality enums22:43
Birdmanor they'd be more desireable22:43
diana_comanif we don't consider the overcraft on building etc, not even that really matters beyond maybe a few coppers up or donw22:43
diana_comanthat's another three pointed thorn really22:44
Birdmanso if the enums you generate are way better quality that the harvestable, should be taken into consideration22:44
diana_comanhow the hell to price the quality on the enums22:44
diana_comanwhat's 1q point worth for you?22:45
Birdmanso you lose the build exp, tool decay, the harvest, the time, and you save the ingredient for building22:45
Birdmanidk22:45
diana_comanhow do you lose build exp?22:45
diana_comanlol22:45
diana_comantool decay no22:45
Birdmanmissing out on22:45
diana_comanyou still decay the tool to get the claim in the first place22:45
diana_comanregardless of whether you build it or not22:46
Birdmanim saying what you are expending22:46
Birdmanyou use all that, save a bit of nothign22:46
Birdmancalculate what you lose + your profit margine and charge me that22:46
diana_comanoh, I think I got what you mean22:46
diana_comanyes, that's what I was trying to get to somehow though it doesn't seem very straightforward even in this simplified version22:47
Birdmani think that about sums it up, you are just trying to take this enumeration and make it worth more than it would be used for building22:47
diana_comanand now I got an ordinary in first try22:47
diana_comanfuck22:47
diana_comanlol22:47
Birdmani might not be thinking of everything you expend though22:48
Birdmanand dans point was you'd find the more valuable claims faster, how much faster could be tested with a length of time using the bot or w/e22:51
Birdmancause it might not be fast enough to outweigh profits of building smalls22:51
Birdmanbut it could be if you sell the enums for the right price22:52
diana_comanI'm trying to get data as fast as I can but it's not very fast it seems, esp since I'd need to mine wpl prolly or something22:52
diana_comanlots to do really22:52
Birdmanyeah will take a bit to even get a sample size22:53
diana_comanthat argument with finding them faster really needs data-testing22:53
Birdmanatm my gathering is apparently high enough to give me lots of wpl22:53
Birdmanyeah for sure, couple over night botting sessions22:53
diana_comanit sounds good, but tbh so far my exp doesn't confirm it at all22:53
Birdmanso im in no rush to at least be able to use my bouq22:53
diana_comanwell yes, if I sort the keys thing22:53
diana_comanugh22:53
diana_comanas otherwise it's about 2.5 hours it can do22:53
diana_comanwpl seems really quite easy to get22:54
Birdmanquestion22:54
diana_comannot to mention that in all this we even assume somehow that the *position* where you mine really does not matter22:55
diana_comanof which I am not entirely convinced either22:56
diana_comandaniel's proposition is basically that it doesn't matter where you dig, it's just a matter of how long you do it22:56
Birdmanwait22:56
Birdmanwhat do you mean22:56
diana_comanmy exp so far kind of tends to disagree with that22:56
Birdmando you think that where you found an ordinary claim will have one next you dig there?22:57
diana_comanlook: there are several places of eps that I know of22:57
diana_comanno22:57
diana_comannot like that22:57
diana_comanin one place I had a hard time every time22:57
diana_comangetting something22:57
diana_comanin another on the other hand I got plenty all the time I went22:57
diana_comanstill eps22:57
diana_comanright?22:57
diana_comanit can be nothing really22:57
diana_comanbut it might be something to it22:57
diana_comanand it's not that you'll get another ordinary next to the one you got22:58
diana_comanbut one patch might be richer than another22:58
Birdmanwell youd need a big enough sample size and test the specific areas22:58
diana_comanand maybe giving out ordinaries at higher rate or whatever22:58
Birdmani get what you mean22:58
diana_comanyeah, I have what to do for the next month or year even22:58
Birdmanthere are some patches of pps i would get lots and others seemed difficulit22:58
diana_comanthat, yes22:59
diana_comanso then the proposition that time lost on building is dubious22:59
Birdmanand by 'richer'  you mean just easier for your skill level?22:59
diana_comanit's rather I waste time on mining tinies if perhaps they are even rarer there23:00
diana_comanmaybe that, I don't know23:00
Birdmancauuse i thought like every in had something you could find23:00
diana_comanmaybe it's simply the pool bigger there or whatever, how could I know?23:00
Birdmannot that some patches would just be devoid in spots23:00
diana_comanyes, in that sense yes23:00
diana_comanbut the odds are not the same everywhere23:00
Birdmanright differing odds not amount to find23:01
diana_comanyes, not amount and not type even, either23:01
Birdmanmaybe it changes23:01
diana_comaneven that could be, yes23:01
Birdmanim getting an insane amount of leather and i never have there before23:01
Birdmanonly few levels higher too23:01
diana_comanmaybe that23:02
diana_comanmaybe you are just on a lucky run23:02
Birdmanyeah23:02
diana_comana bit earlier I just came to a spot, dug once and got ..ordinary23:02
mircea_popescuwhat's insane ?23:03
* mircea_popescu would buy some leather.23:03
Birdmanonly keeping enums23:06
Birdmanalthough can sell you and ordinary23:06
mircea_popescuwhat'sd it take ?23:06
Birdmanand im getting some leathers like 14/15 explores23:06
Birdman7 clovers 7 crab shells 6 snails abandoned eggs and shiny rock23:07
diana_comanyeah, ordinary leathers are shit23:07
Birdmanpayout is crap compared to material cost?23:07
diana_comanmircea_popescu I even have some lower q wpl if you want them23:07
diana_comanI was asking in game a bit earlier and thought you didn't need any23:07
diana_comanno, it's just that they require the clover23:08
diana_comanwhich we don't have23:08
diana_comanhence atm not very useful23:08
Birdmanyeah23:08
mircea_popescuBirdman i have no clover, so that's that.23:08
Birdmanme neither and i dont need the leathers lol23:08
mircea_popescudiana_coman wondering if to make wineskins or imp tools23:08
mircea_popescuhow much leather you got ?23:09
diana_coman1 sec, let me go and check23:09
mircea_popescui sold danielpbarron a ton of almost wine, no idea if he burned it up or not yet23:09
Birdmanid buy some of that23:09
Birdmanand spicy moss/enums23:09
diana_coman71 left23:10
diana_comanmake that 90 actually (just got some on me, lol)23:10
mircea_popescuyeah i guess so.23:11
diana_comanI'd buy some imp tools, though not really a ton if it's at 140%23:11
mircea_popescuim out, danielpbarron bought the lot.23:11
diana_comanno trouble with that23:11
Birdmanthought maybe dual wielding tools would do something23:15
Birdmanwhat is the base value calculated from?23:19
Birdmanor is that unknown23:19
mircea_popescumerchant price adjusted fgor quality23:20
diana_comancurious Birdman: at that place of insane wpl amounts what ratio tiny:small did you get?23:24
Birdman131/1423:25
Birdmanand 145/3 on ordinary23:25
mircea_popescuyou got 3 ordinaries in 145 tries ?23:25
mircea_popescuand 14 smalls ie 1 in 10 ?23:26
diana_comansounds like what I am experiencing there, yes23:26
BirdmanMore often than normal?23:26
diana_comanratio of small rather small compared to what I got when I did the run for your enums a bit earlier23:26
mircea_popescuseems pretty decent.23:27
mircea_popescuwhats this, electron's hoes ?23:27
diana_comanquite good for ordinary really, quite strange on small23:27
Birdmansmaller for strange?23:27
Birdmanwow23:27
diana_comanearlier I had the smalls all ,but I had to get most older tiny from storage for you, lol23:28
Birdmanahem, its it smaller than normal on the smalls?23:28
Birdmanoh lucky you lol23:28
diana_comanI got there more like 1:7, but not here or now23:28
diana_comanthat's why I was curious23:28
mircea_popescui would guess i get about 1:7 or 8 on average.23:28
mircea_popescusmalls i mean23:29
diana_coman(btw: will let it mine this night without build, since I need data points for that too)23:29
diana_comando you prefer something other than wpl?23:29
diana_comanor should I let it go on wpl?23:29
diana_comanyeah, that was what seemed usual to me too, hence my surprise at this spot which on one hand gives me one ordinary just like that23:29
diana_comanand on the other messes up the ratio tiny:small23:30
diana_comanbut whatever, not really exploed enough to say if it's not just an artefact23:30
Birdmanyeah the wpl is fine23:30
diana_comanok23:31
Birdmandoes the quality of the tool effect your exp gained?23:41
Birdmanor do different claims give different, or any, exp when found?23:42
diana_comanas in what quality the tool has when you start?23:47
diana_comanor as in imp vs basic?23:47
Birdmanimp vs basic23:48
Birdmanor maybe im asking what do you get gathering exp from23:49

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